1917 Eddystone Magazine issue

rtq89 · October 16, 2013, 02:11 PM

Hi all, first post here. So I inherited this old sporterized 1917 Eddystone and I'm trying to bring it back to life. Not much wrong with it, had to replace the ejector spring of course, but now I've noticed that the magazine won't cycle a new round into the receicer. Everytime I work the bolt the new round gets jammed. It seems like the mag only kicks it up half way so the round gets pinched going into the chamber at an angle and the bolt can't close. Is this just a mag spring issue or could it be something else?

tangolima · October 16, 2013, 05:54 PM

Is it just the first round off a full magazine? The first round is usually a bit harder to go in. The subsequent rounds should be ok. It will help if you can show some pictures. Probably the magazine lips need some adjustment.

I have a 1917 eddystone too. A bit heavy, good rifle other than that.

-TL

Mobuck · October 16, 2013, 06:13 PM

Lots of times the follower and/or magazine spring get reversed when the rifle is reassembled. This makes things foul up and misfeed.

rtq89 · October 16, 2013, 08:23 PM

Its not just the first round but every round, and I removed the bolt to clean around it and discovered that the rim of my shells don't fit in the extractor claw on the bolt...did I damage the claw by chambering rounds by hand single shot style?

Mobuck · October 17, 2013, 06:56 AM

What type of ammo are you using? What is the actual caliber of the rifle and is the ammo the same? A "sporterized" rifle might not still be the original chambering.
Yes, it's possible to damage a "controlled feed" extractor by hand feeding a round into the chamber and forcing the bolt closed.

rtq89 · October 17, 2013, 07:05 AM

I'm pretty sure it is .30-06. I've shot a few rounds through it and the rounds go through fine, actually they are surprisingly accurate for an old gun. I'm using both springfield and federal rounds. I don't like federal, but they are cheap.

RC20 · October 17, 2013, 10:52 AM

You can't damage it by single loading.

I always do that with mine. I slow target fire and its a lot easier when they call a cease fire not to have to remove the remaining rounds.

Pretty much has to be 30-06 if nothing bad has happened but something you should check extremely careful and confirm before loading a round into an unknown chamber.

velocette · October 17, 2013, 07:59 PM

Yes you can damage it with single loading!
the US rifle of 1917 is a controlled feed design, copied from the '98 Mauser action.
The 1917 rifle is designed to feed from its magazine, not by loading into the chamber.
The Mauser extractor is designed for the round coming from the magazine to slide under the extractor as it is being fed from the magazine into the chamber. Under "control" at all times. Feeding a round into the chamber, forces the extractor to ride over the rim of the cartridge, not as it was designed and overstressing the extractor.
If you want to feed rounds into the chamber directly, buy a push feed action rifle, not a controlled feed action rifle.
Properly set up, a controlled feed rifle will feed upside down, sideways, or any way that you may hold your rifle. Not so a push feed rifle. This is why virtually all military rifles are controlled feed as well a all dangerous game rifles.

James K · October 17, 2013, 08:32 PM

Well, that is only partially true. Those contolled feed rifles were intended to be fed from the magazine in the normal course of events. But all of them, including the Mausers, the M1903, the P-13/14 and the M1917 were made to allow a round to be dropped into the chamber and fired in an emergency. The extractors will snap over the rim of the cartridge without damage to the extractor or the rifle.

The common belief is that controlled feed was intended to allow the rifle to be loaded in other than the upright position; while that is true, it is not the real reason for controlled feed. The very first Mausers had what we now call "push feed". The drawback was (and is) that if a round is chambered and then the bolt withdrawn without being fully locked, the live round will remain in the chamber and pushing the bolt forward will move the next round up behind the chambered one. That was not a big problem with lead round nose bullets, but when pointed jacketed bullets came into use, the point of the bullet could be shoved into the primer of the chambered round, with interesting results. Controlled feed prevents that by ensuring that a round cannot be left in the chamber if the bolt is not fully locked.

Jim

RC20 · October 17, 2013, 09:49 PM

My mistakes as the more common method is inserting into the chamber.

In my case I single load a cartridge into he magazine and then chamber it.

Mobuck · October 18, 2013, 04:35 AM

Just for the record, the "suggested" way of single loading with Springfield and Mauser rifles is to use finger pressure on the outside of the extractor about half it's length to assist the front part in snapping over the cartridge rim.
Simply slamming the bolt forward will eventually cause extractor damage. If you're about to get shot by the enemy, the possibility of "eventual damage" is inconsequential. If you're shooting on the range, it's your choice.

velocette · October 18, 2013, 08:25 AM

James K is correct, you CAN single load a Mauser action by dropping a round in the chamber. You will have to force the extractor over the rim of the cartridge using a bit of strength. I see commonly at the range I supervise, folks with controlled feed rifles work to get the bolt closed. It is much more difficult than allowing the round to feed from the magazine. When shown why their rifle does not want to have its bolt closed / extractor ride over rim, they are pleasantly surprised at how easily their rifle functions.
It does give me pain when sumdood got his hands on his dad's pre 64 M 70 Winnie and is forcing the bolt closed as he single loads into the chamber instead of the mag.

Roger

RC20 · October 18, 2013, 12:45 PM

Ego recognizing the issue I went to my version of single loading, or more accuracy, the combination of the problem with controlled feed and the extract and having a cease fire called along with that problem.

Cease fire on our range not only requires the bolt back but the magazine empty.

Tom68 · October 18, 2013, 01:11 PM

I have also wondered about single loading CRF rifles and can reason that it might eventually cause damage to the extractor for the same reasons previously mentioned. For that reason I was surprised to see that the operators manual for my new M70 actually includes instructions for doing exactly that.

Another thing I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned is the magazine cutoff switch on the M1903: the way I have been made to understand, is that the US Army felt that repeating rifles were really just a way of wasting ammunition....that troopers would aim more carefully if they had to single load each cartridge. Therefore, the intended practice was to load the magazine for an emergency, using the cutoff switch to require single loading...and the switch moved to "on" only under the supervision of an NCO. I think this was a carryover from the Krag...I don't have one so I'm not sure, may a Krag guy like Kraig can chime in and confirm. At any rate, if the rifle was designed and adopted to accommodate this method, one might reason that at least the US Army didn't think it harmful back in the early 20th century.

And even after that dissertation....I still don't do it on my own CRF rifles.

October 16, 2013, 02:11 PM	#1
rtq89 Junior Member Join Date: October 16, 2013 Posts: 3	1917 Eddystone Magazine issue Hi all, first post here. So I inherited this old sporterized 1917 Eddystone and I'm trying to bring it back to life. Not much wrong with it, had to replace the ejector spring of course, but now I've noticed that the magazine won't cycle a new round into the receicer. Everytime I work the bolt the new round gets jammed. It seems like the mag only kicks it up half way so the round gets pinched going into the chamber at an angle and the bolt can't close. Is this just a mag spring issue or could it be something else?

October 17, 2013, 07:59 PM	#8
velocette Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 924	Yes you can damage it with single loading! the US rifle of 1917 is a controlled feed design, copied from the '98 Mauser action. The 1917 rifle is designed to feed from its magazine, not by loading into the chamber. The Mauser extractor is designed for the round coming from the magazine to slide under the extractor as it is being fed from the magazine into the chamber. Under "control" at all times. Feeding a round into the chamber, forces the extractor to ride over the rim of the cartridge, not as it was designed and overstressing the extractor. If you want to feed rounds into the chamber directly, buy a push feed action rifle, not a controlled feed action rifle. Properly set up, a controlled feed rifle will feed upside down, sideways, or any way that you may hold your rifle. Not so a push feed rifle. This is why virtually all military rifles are controlled feed as well a all dangerous game rifles. __________________ Trigger control + Breath control + Sight alignment = Gun Control. http://www.hrpclub.info/ NRA Smallbore Prone Master, High Power Master

October 18, 2013, 08:25 AM	#12
velocette Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 924	James K is correct, you CAN single load a Mauser action by dropping a round in the chamber. You will have to force the extractor over the rim of the cartridge using a bit of strength. I see commonly at the range I supervise, folks with controlled feed rifles work to get the bolt closed. It is much more difficult than allowing the round to feed from the magazine. When shown why their rifle does not want to have its bolt closed / extractor ride over rim, they are pleasantly surprised at how easily their rifle functions. It does give me pain when sumdood got his hands on his dad's pre 64 M 70 Winnie and is forcing the bolt closed as he single loads into the chamber instead of the mag. Roger __________________ Trigger control + Breath control + Sight alignment = Gun Control. http://www.hrpclub.info/ NRA Smallbore Prone Master, High Power Master

October 18, 2013, 01:11 PM	#14
Tom68 Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 349	1917 Eddystone Magazine issue I have also wondered about single loading CRF rifles and can reason that it might eventually cause damage to the extractor for the same reasons previously mentioned. For that reason I was surprised to see that the operators manual for my new M70 actually includes instructions for doing exactly that. Another thing I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned is the magazine cutoff switch on the M1903: the way I have been made to understand, is that the US Army felt that repeating rifles were really just a way of wasting ammunition....that troopers would aim more carefully if they had to single load each cartridge. Therefore, the intended practice was to load the magazine for an emergency, using the cutoff switch to require single loading...and the switch moved to "on" only under the supervision of an NCO. I think this was a carryover from the Krag...I don't have one so I'm not sure, may a Krag guy like Kraig can chime in and confirm. At any rate, if the rifle was designed and adopted to accommodate this method, one might reason that at least the US Army didn't think it harmful back in the early 20th century. And even after that dissertation....I still don't do it on my own CRF rifles.

October 16, 2013, 05:54 PM	#2
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,826	Is it just the first round off a full magazine? The first round is usually a bit harder to go in. The subsequent rounds should be ok. It will help if you can show some pictures. Probably the magazine lips need some adjustment. I have a 1917 eddystone too. A bit heavy, good rifle other than that. -TL

October 16, 2013, 06:13 PM	#3
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Lots of times the follower and/or magazine spring get reversed when the rifle is reassembled. This makes things foul up and misfeed.

October 16, 2013, 08:23 PM	#4
rtq89 Junior Member Join Date: October 16, 2013 Posts: 3	Its not just the first round but every round, and I removed the bolt to clean around it and discovered that the rim of my shells don't fit in the extractor claw on the bolt...did I damage the claw by chambering rounds by hand single shot style?

October 17, 2013, 06:56 AM	#5
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	What type of ammo are you using? What is the actual caliber of the rifle and is the ammo the same? A "sporterized" rifle might not still be the original chambering. Yes, it's possible to damage a "controlled feed" extractor by hand feeding a round into the chamber and forcing the bolt closed.

October 17, 2013, 07:05 AM	#6
rtq89 Junior Member Join Date: October 16, 2013 Posts: 3	I'm pretty sure it is .30-06. I've shot a few rounds through it and the rounds go through fine, actually they are surprisingly accurate for an old gun. I'm using both springfield and federal rounds. I don't like federal, but they are cheap.

October 17, 2013, 10:52 AM	#7
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	You can't damage it by single loading. I always do that with mine. I slow target fire and its a lot easier when they call a cease fire not to have to remove the remaining rounds. Pretty much has to be 30-06 if nothing bad has happened but something you should check extremely careful and confirm before loading a round into an unknown chamber.

October 17, 2013, 08:32 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Well, that is only partially true. Those contolled feed rifles were intended to be fed from the magazine in the normal course of events. But all of them, including the Mausers, the M1903, the P-13/14 and the M1917 were made to allow a round to be dropped into the chamber and fired in an emergency. The extractors will snap over the rim of the cartridge without damage to the extractor or the rifle. The common belief is that controlled feed was intended to allow the rifle to be loaded in other than the upright position; while that is true, it is not the real reason for controlled feed. The very first Mausers had what we now call "push feed". The drawback was (and is) that if a round is chambered and then the bolt withdrawn without being fully locked, the live round will remain in the chamber and pushing the bolt forward will move the next round up behind the chambered one. That was not a big problem with lead round nose bullets, but when pointed jacketed bullets came into use, the point of the bullet could be shoved into the primer of the chambered round, with interesting results. Controlled feed prevents that by ensuring that a round cannot be left in the chamber if the bolt is not fully locked. Jim

October 17, 2013, 09:49 PM	#10
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	My mistakes as the more common method is inserting into the chamber. In my case I single load a cartridge into he magazine and then chamber it.

October 18, 2013, 04:35 AM	#11
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Just for the record, the "suggested" way of single loading with Springfield and Mauser rifles is to use finger pressure on the outside of the extractor about half it's length to assist the front part in snapping over the cartridge rim. Simply slamming the bolt forward will eventually cause extractor damage. If you're about to get shot by the enemy, the possibility of "eventual damage" is inconsequential. If you're shooting on the range, it's your choice.

October 18, 2013, 12:45 PM	#13
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Ego recognizing the issue I went to my version of single loading, or more accuracy, the combination of the problem with controlled feed and the extract and having a cease fire called along with that problem. Cease fire on our range not only requires the bolt back but the magazine empty.