Santa brought me a 45-70...

[Tex S]

An H&R Buffalo Classic rifle. Looks pretty cool... I have been wanting a single shot 45-70 for quite a while now, but Santa just couldn't pony up the 1K plus for a browning or Winchester 1885.

Anyway, the rifle is nice, and will offer me a cheap way to get into loading 45-70. This brings me to the next question...

What loads are yall using for hunting (deer and pigs) and target shooting? I see the 3 main bullet weights are 300gr, 350gr, and 405gr. I am at a loss for which weight to buy since I have never loaded anything even remotely close to this caliber. I want to start out shooting cast lead bullets; that much I know for sure. Powder and bullet recommendations will definitely be appreciated. Should leading be an issue? I am thinking about grabbing a box of Oregon Trail bullets, as they have been my favorite for 45 acp. I know they are expensive, but there is a discernerable difference between them and cheaper lead.

Another thing is I cant find a carbide die set for this caliber. I have loaded many straight wall pistol cartridges with carbide dies, but never a straight wall rifle case. Are these cases too large to be sized with carbide dies and no lube?

[PawPaw]

What is your twist rate? That and your bullet speed will determine what size bullet is best in your rifle. Is your barrel standard rifling or microgroove? I've seen both in the Buffalo Classic. That'll make a difference too. My barrel is a 12 groove 1:20 micro barrel and shoots 405 grain cast bullets really well.

[Tex S]

As far as I can tell it is a 32" 1 in 20, but that is just some information that was revealed in a quick Google search.

I will count the rifling when I get home. I guess I do not know what a micro groove barrel is, or how to tell if I have one.

[JACK308]

Marlin 1895GBL 350 laser cast IMR 3031 48grains

[hk33ka1]

I would start with a .459-.460" 405 grain lead bullet and IMR 4198, but thats just what I like.

If the bullet is properly fit to your barrel leading should not be an issue.

[snuffy]

Tex, I have the same rifle. I've had good luck with all weights of lead bullets, 350, 405 and a custom mold for a 420 grain, all plain base.

That curved steel butt plate will start hurting you if you get carried away with heavy bullets and stiff powder charges. The rifle is capable of levergun pressures, or mid range between the trapdoor Springfield and ruger bolt action loads.

The rifling is shallow, but mine is NOT micro groove. It needs bullets sized to .460 to fill the grooves, mine slugs @ .4585.

If you'd want to try a few of my cast boolits, let me know by PM, I'll send you some to try.

As for powders to use, my main choices are IMR 4895, H-335, IMR 3031, and SR-4759. I did try some trail boss, with the 420 grainer, you could watch the bullet travel to the 100 yard target! Felt like shooting a .410 shotgun.

[Tex S]

Snuffy,

I thought the bcr was good for any published 45-70 load data, not just levergun loads or below? The instructions that came with it did not say to stay away from any particular ammo.

Where did you get that information? I'm not really going for full power loads because of the excessive recoil, but who knows, I may wish to experiment.

[snuffy]

Tex, I called NEF, came right out and asked. The gal on the phone said; up to and including levergun levels of pressures, NOT ruger #1 or a bolt action like a M-98 mauser loads.

While I'm not recoil shy, I don't like sore bruises on my shoulder. That's what I got from that horrid curved buttplate. I stick around the starting levels for lever gun loads in the 400 grain area of lead bullets. For 300 grain jacketed hollow points, I can run to the top lever loads without getting hurt.

[flashhole]

The 45-70 has a slight taper to the case. You will not find carbide dies for it.

Keep in mind you will be loading lead at the "Springfield" level. Pushing a lead bullet too hard will cause excessive leading in the barrel. Cleaning it out is no fun.

If you migrate to jacketed bullets I recommend the Hornady 350 RN or FN bullets. H-4895 with that bullet will put a smile on your face.

[savagelover]

I have been shooting the old 45-70 for years.It is my favorite cal....
If I were you I would not load over the trap door loads..That rifle is gonna beat you silly and then your gonna get a flintch....Any of the trap door loads are plenty for hunting anything you want to hunt..If your starting with cast bullets,I would stay with them..Going from cast to jacketed bullets will ruin any accuracy you had..5744 powder and 300 grain hollow point will kill a grizzly ....I have gotten 3 pretty good size black bear with mine and all with cast bullets...Now went far..I did find that a flat nose soft cast bullet works better for hunting...Good luck with it and have fun...

[snuffy]

Keep in mind you will be loading lead at the "Springfield" level. Pushing a lead bullet too hard will cause excessive leading in the barrel. Cleaning it out is no fun.

That's just plain wrong! Internet myth plain and simple. I can and have pushed lead 350 grain cast lead boolits to 1800 fps with no, (ZERO), leading. You MAY have a point IF you're talking about buying some lead bullet from a company or on midway or such. Then loading it too hot may produce leading. But my home cast bullets are sized to a bore that I know the diameter of. Controlling the size and the alloy hardness of my own bullets lets me do that.

[flashhole]

Is 1800 fps your top end velocity? Seems to me that falls in line with the Springfield type loads with light bullets and if you are loading a 405 grain bullet you will most likely be around 1600 fps, again Springfield territory. One way to learn though is push them lead cast bullets real fast and see first hand what the results are.

[Tex S]

Savagelover said...

.Going from cast to jacketed bullets will ruin any accuracy you had.

I have never heard anything like this. Can you please explain?

[Jim Watson]

I agree with hk33 and Snuffy.
If you start out with a 405 grain bullet at 1200 fps - original 1873 ballistics - you may find that is all the fun you want. All the target shooters I know and many of the hunters favor heavy bullets*, especially if cast. One friend shoots the 330 grain Gould Express but then his .45-90 and .450 BPE are slow twist meant for such light bullets.

I am getting that performance with a .40-65 and feel no need for more oomph.

The Shooters Friend slip on recoil pad is a big help. It is ugly but it sure cushions the recoil and only costs $20 from Buffalo Arms, Cabelas, or even Amazon.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.as...93&TERM=recoil pad

*And 405 grains is not heavy, not at 600 yards. The Army went to a 500 grain bullet in 1881 but that might be a little stout in that light a rifle.


Copper and lead fouling are not compatible.
Shoot jacketed bullets and the copper wash will make it hard to get a cast bullet to shoot well; and vice versa. Thorough cleaning will let you change over, a jacketed bullet won't permanently ruin the barrel for lead.

[savagelover]

Tex S What I mean is if your using cast bullets,and have the micro groove barrel you run a risk of leading some of the barrel...And then if you don't have it all cleaned out,and go to jacketed you will just push the leading deeper...I had this happen with my Sharps rifle and it took a long time to get it cleaned out for good accuracy agan....So now all I use is the cast bullets..They will kill anything on this earth...A good flat nose cast bullet will knockem dead...And you can run the risk of having a smooth bore,,,lol

[flashhole]

500 grain bullets hit hard at both ends. I have some hardcast 500 grainers that I shoot in my Guide Gun at about 1500 fps and man does that get your attention. Not fun shooting at all.

[Tex S]

Does anybody know the bc on a 405gr laser cast bullet? I am trying to get some accurate ballistic tables and I do not have this piece of information.

I am also wondering if the laser cast bullets are too hard to reliably expand at velocities in the 1300-1500 fps range? Anybody have any experience hunting with these?

[Jim Watson]

I don't know about the Laser Cast but the BC of a 405 gr Lyman .458" flat point is .307.
That is high, a 400 gr Lyman BC is .280 and a Remington 405 gr JSP is only .251.


A Laser Cast is unlikely to expand much at Trapdoor velocities.
A deer shot with a big flat point like that unlikely to notice the lack.

[Tex S]

Will my 1 in 20 barrel be well suited for 405gr cast lead bullets?

[savagelover]

Should be a good shooter with that bullet....As I mentioned in my previous post...Cast bullets is all I ever use in mine....Althought my rifle is a sharps rifle made by Pedersolie...Good luck with it..I know you will do well with it....John