Sore Shoulder

[mrlebowski79]

I am a new shotgunner. I put about 30 rounds of #1, #4 buckshot and 8 Birdshot through my new mossberg 500 12 gauge. my shoulder is pretty sore but not bruised. Is this normaly for this to happen? Or am I possibly holding the gun wrong against my shoulder?

thanks!

[BigJimP]

No, if you have any pain, it is not normal. It can be a combination of things causing it - how you shoulder the gun, is length of pull too too short, is it too long, etc. But to really tell what the issues are - you'll have to ask some of the guys you shoot with - to give you some input and to see if they can help you "fit" the gun to you.

Shotguns are not a case where one size fits all. Drop at comb, at heel, length of pull can all make a big difference - any maybe it just comes down to the gun fits fine but you want to upgrade the recoil pad.

I routinely shoot 8 - 10 boxes a day usually twice a week and no shoulder, cheek pain. So it's just a matter of getting this all figured out.

[mrlebowski79]

Thanks for the input, that isn't exactly what i wanted to hear haha. Well I am 6'1 and I guess i have long arms, not sure. How does that effect recoil? I am completely unknowledable on the subject. How would I fit it to my arms? I have contemplated getting a knoxx specops stock with adjustable pull. How does that effect me? What length would you recommend? I heard like 15 1/2 inches for someone like 6'3.

Thanks for your help.

[JWT]

In addition to recoil pads there an numerous recoil reducers available. Gra-Coil is one, but there's others similar. They're very effective, but unfortunately also a bit pricey and require a gunsmiths' installation.

[kayakersteve]

I think after 30 rounds, it is ok to be a little sore - My Mossberg 835 really jumps when the trigger is pulled, especially with 3 inch mags - The next day my shoulder is usually sore.

[mrlebowski79]

Well i was just using normal 2 3/4 shells. This kinda sucks cause I enjoy shooting it buts it pretty uncomfortable. I was just wearing a t-shirt so there wasn't much padding in my clothing either. Can you explain good techniques like leaning into the shot, flexing my pectoral muscles is another thing that i have not tried but heard about. Can anyone explain length of pull and how it relates to recoil amounts etc?

Thanks

[FL-Flinter]

Welcome to the Mossberg club! I have the camo nylon stocked M-500 and it'll beat the crap out of anyone no matter of size or shape. Using standard 1.125zo trap loads; 25 rounds and I'm sore, 50 rounds and I'm real sore, 75 rounds and it's pain w/ minor bruising and swelling, 100+ rounds and you can well be there's alot of bruising on both cheek and shoulder and it's going to hurt for several days. I'll give you a good piece of advice, if you plan on working patterns or single projectile loads off the bench, invest in a lead sled or similar device and add a sheepskin pad between your cheek & the stock. I was doing pattern tests off the bench one day and forgot my padding, after only 30 rounds or so I was whipped.

It's all in the design, not the weight. I had an old Stevens single shot that barely weighed 5 pounds (if that much) and it didn't kick nowhere near like the M-500. Actually it kicked harder but the "felt" recoil was considerably less and I pouned a lot of PRB loads off the bench with that one and never once needed a recoil tamer nor did I feel like I had the crap beat out of me.

I've shot M-500's with all kinds of stocks on them, factory and aftermarket, no matter what the style, the M-500 still has a lot of felt recoil. Friend of mine shoots 3 gun and he sent his out to get it ported, didn't change the felt recoil at all. The only thing that really helped was the recoil buffer I built for my old M-500 with an OEM wood stock but it does add weight but being that you're 73" like me, you may get the same advantage I did from it adding the weight in the stock, makes the gun more balanced by moving the center of balance rearward slightly. They nylon stock I have now has the spare ammo holders built-in and I carry it with four rounds in the holders, it helps a little with the balance but it could easily use at least another 6-8oz.

[kozak6]

You might need a longer length of pull since you are tall and have long arms.

What you should do is type shotgun fit into google, and see if you can figure out how well your shotgun fits you.

It might be worthwhile to have a gunsmith fit the shotgun to you and perhaps install a recoil pad.

When you shoot, it's also important to pull the shotgun tight into your shoulder.

Imagine what it would be like if you held the shotgun an inch away from your shoulder and fired. It would recoil, and you'd have a cool new bruise to show your buddies.

The same sort of thing happens if you hold the shotgun against your shoulder loosely or gently, just on a lesser scale. If you hold it tighter, you roll with the recoil instead of getting smacked around.

[tegemu]

I was going to mention seating the gun well into your shoulder but kozak6 beat me to it. I think another part of the problem is shooting slugs and buckshot, they recoil more than birdshot. As you get more experienced you will learn to give in to the recoil and roll with it rather than bracing hard and trying to resist it.

[DesertDawg]

Besides having the proper equipment and solidly planting the butt of your shotgun into your shoulder, try LEANING INTO your shooting. Don't lock your knees, and as you're leaning forward, allow the recoil to PUSH on your shoulder, which will cause a more smoothe rearward motion. Just be sure to plant the butt solidly into your shoulder, and don't anticipate the recoil....just allow it to push you back slightly.

There are recoil-absorbing pads that you can wear, instead of having something permanently affixed to the butt of your shotgun....and they might save you a few bucks. I have been using a "P.A.S.T." recoil absorber for many, many years. It is worn somewhat like a shoulder holster, and can be used for both shotguns and rifles. I've fired as many as 200 12-gauge magnum slugs at a time while wearing that recoil absorber, and could have done more! I think that I paid $20 for it, but that was back in the 1980's.

[Jseime]

What shooting stance do you use?

I shoot left-handed so with a shotgun my right foot is forward pointing at the area of the target and my left foot is back and off at an angle a bit and with your knees bent slightly and leaning ahead some you shouldnt feel it as much.

With 3 inch magnums in my 500 i dont like to shoot a lot but i can stand around and fire target loads all day long.

[Maser]

Sounds perfectly normal to me. I got my Mossberg 500 as a belated 12th birthday gift and I took a natural liking to trap shooting and tactical shotgunning. Even with target loads, the more you fire the gun, the more fatigued your shoulder is going to get and the more intense felt recoil is going to feel.

[mrlebowski79]

Yeah I shoot left handed as well and was employing the same stance you mentioned. I will try to practice with it some more, maybe look into recoil absorbers.

Thanks everyone!

[FirstFreedom]

Pretty standard. Shoot about 75-100 rounds from a pump 12 gauge. Next couple days you'll see yellow, purple, black - a rainbow of sorts on the shoulder.

[FL-Flinter]

My M-500 beats my face as much as it does my shoulder. There's just something to the design that makes this particular gun nasty but I ain't about to give mine up over it.

Pulling it tight to your shoulder doesn't help either. I've been shooting for many years including competition and I haven't found a stance yet that tones down the beating an M-500 will inflict. If you really want to see the "rainbow effect", put a box of 2oz shot loads through an M-500 for patterning.

[Rmstn1580]

I'd say it's pretty normal to feel some kind of soreness after a day of shooting. If you want a simple fix, just hold the gun in tight to your shoulder and don't fight the recoil, just rock back with it. When I first started shooting shotguns, I was afraid of the recoil so I wouldn't bring it in because I figured, "Damn, if it's closer to me, it's going to hurt more!". Not the case. I started holding it in tight and rocking with the recoil and ya, I felt some pain, but it didn't bother me much. It was the kind of pain that lets you know you're a man because you shot a round that could cut someone in half. Arrrggghhhh!!!!!

[skeeter1]

My first shotgun would leave my shoulder sore after 50 rds. and black-and-blue after 100. mMy next shotgun I wanted set up specifically for trapshooting. I knew I wanted a recoil pad and the smithy who installed suggested I try increasing the LOP fro 14.5" to 15". Mind you I'm only 5'7", but that extra 0.5" made a word of difference in better gun fit and improved scores.

The second thing I tried changing was my load. I started out with standard 2-3/4-dram, 1-1/8 oz #7-1/2 shot. Once I started reloading, I experimented a bit and ended up settling on 3-dram, 1oz #8 shot. Again, easier on the shoulder, and my shooting improved.

If you haven't tried one already, try a hunting/shooting vest with a padded shoulder. I've got a couple of them for different uses, but they both help.

[KDM]

I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong...in fact, I'm sure someone will!
A trick I've used to determine "correct-for-you" LOP is this: 1. hold shotgun by the wrist 2. lay stock down your forearm, butt towards your biceps 3. bend arm at elbow. The butt of the shotgun should just touch your biceps. If it's too long or short, the "correct-for-you" LOP is too long or short.

[Dave McC]

A couple things.....

A good pad helps, but the best one in the world won't compensate for bad form.

My guess is you're shooting standing sideways like a rifleman instead of behind your shotgun.

Stand facing where you want to break the target if it's moving or just facing it if it's not.

Step forward with your left foot(If you're RH) as if you're going to walk there. You now are leaning into the shot. Your face should be over your toes. Keep that front knee bent. Your rear leg should be straight but not locked.

As you raise the shotgun to your face, bring your right elbow up to 90 degrees to help form the "Cup". This is just inside your shoulder joint and the butt goes there.

This stance permits greater flexibilty and movement to the left, and the recoil forces go into the whole upper body instead of a butt shaped area of outraged pain receptors. The spine also acts as a spring, redistributing the felt recoil.

Make sure the shotgun is PULLED well into the shoulder so everything moves as a unit.

Remember the swing starts at the ankles. The whole body moves.

And, until you've gotten some consistency and experience, use the lightest loads you can find. The popular 7/8 oz loads are good choices.

HTH.....

[BigJimP]

you've gotten lots of good info - but length of pull can really only be determined by someone looking at you as you mount the gun - and to some extent how it feels to you. For a guideline - I'm 6'4" and have reasonably long arms and I like a length of pull on my guns set at 14 5/8" - but many guns come out of the factory at about 14 3/8 as kind of a standard. But a length of pull beyond 14 3/4" would be very unusual.

But a combination of length of pull, drop at comb, drop at heel, cast on or off the stock add up to what fits you. The length from your shoulder pocket up to your cheek bone - a lot of that makes a difference.

A lot of recoil is absorbed in your grip - by your hand and wrist - and I think most experts will tell you it's at least 25%. Not that overgripping a gun is a good idea - but there are all kinds of things that can cause pain - if you push a gun away from your shoulder as you move, etc or any breakdown in fundamentals where you lift your head, etc can cause the gun to smack you. Recoil is a function of the weight of the gun, the velocity of the load, and the weight of the shot charge. But light or heavy recoil still should not cause pain if the gun fits you properly. If it doesn't fit or if mounting isn't done properly - even light loads will cause all kinds of pain in shoulder, bicep, teeth, cheek. There are a lot of good books out there on shotgunnig - fundaments of trap, skeet, etc that have chapters on gun mount, stance, grip, forened grip - and on gun fit - look some of those over. But most shotgun companies are building guns for the "average guy" something like 5'10" with a length of pull at 14 3/8" and 1 1/2" drop at the comb, 2 1/2" drop at heel - and that doesn't fit that many people. I've gone to all paralell comb guns - where the comb is paralell to the rib - but even on a field stock you can put an adhesive pad on it to raise it up, and neutralize that drop, so there are all kinds of ways to fix this.

Spend some time at a gun club - and talk to a lot of the guys - and get some input - maybe shoot some other guns - and figure out what fits you best or how to modify your gun and improve your fundamentals. But don't let anyone talk you into "some pain is expected" because it's not.

[Deaf Smith]

The 500 is quite light. Buck and slug will hurt after a while. I've had the Maverick 88, 18 inch barrel, and it's a monster with top loads. But it's so easy to carry! I now have the 590 and a Magum Marine 870 and they are heavier.

[Jseime]

I'm seeing a pretty constant trend here that the M500 is a kicker..probably not as bad as a featherweight Ithaca 37 my cousin was trying to sell to me one day for 100 dollars. I had the cash but the next time I saw him he had changed his mind.

I think that I might buy a Beretta xtrema for the heavier loads and leave the 500 for smaller target loads because 3 inch magnums put a guy into a whole world of hurt.