RCBS sucks!

[garryc]

I'm done with RCBS dies. I have broken so many decapping pins over the years I might as well buy stock. Their decapping system is archaic, Lee makes a better one. From now on it's Hornady or Lee. Never will I put another RCBS die in a progressive press

[jtravisbayne]

I like RCBS's equipment, but I've become less of a fan of their dies in favor of Lee. My father wound up with a crate of surplus military 223 brass back in the 80's. Quite a few of the flash holes were off center, which would cause the primer punch to bend when he tried to size the case as it would hit the base instead of the flash hole. He said after replacing 5 punches, he decided it wasn't worth it. A few weeks ago, I dug the brass out and polished it up. He warned me about the flash holes, but I told him I intended to use a Lee universal decapping die that would allow the primer punch to ride up if I hit an obstruction. Coincidentally, I mounted the decapping die in my RCBS Rockchucker. He was shocked to find that I was able to decap all 1,200 rounds without a single exception. Might have had something to do with the universal decapping die being able to "find" the flash hole without a normal sizing die holding the case tight against the wall of the die, but suffice it to say that I didn't come close to bending, breaking or otherwise damaging the primer punch.

[whiplash]

whats causing you to break that many pins? Ive only broken two (rockchucker though), and everytime Ive called RCBS and offered to pay they say nope well send them to you. And not only do the send one, they send at least five.

[Bones507]

I broke 1 pin in 12 years and they sent me 3 at no charge whatsoever. I use their stuff only, tried Lee dies and didnt care for them at all.

[Oberg]

I have broke 2 one a unknown Berden Primed case (Son of a ...... My bad) and a nato round with offset primer hole. I like the RCBS cuz I bought a lee in 223 also and I used it for about one day and the decapping pin kept sliding up and getting stuck in the case... still can't get it out and that was last sumemr

[ZeSpectre]

Never will I put another RCBS die in a progressive press

Sounds to me like you need to check the setup of your press.

[dahermit]

Back in the day, RCBS represented the best that was available. However, they rested on their reputation and never made any changes or innovations to their designs (or processes?). Their designs were good in the early 60's, but at todays standards and modern machining technology they are not.

Despised as they are, some of Lee's products are far ahead of RCBS in design (Lee collet neck sizer, Lee Factory crimp die).

They cannot sit on their A.. and expect to continually reap the benefits of being "best". Having used RCBS dies and products since 1965, I now buy Lee mostly Lee dies.

[Sevens]

I'm not a big fan of RCBS products for a few reasons, none of which are appropriate in this thread. With that out of the way, it's foolish to give the thread a title of "RCBS Sucks" because you have broken a lot of pins when most folks don't have the same problem. Oh yes, I completely and entirely agree that Lee's decapping system on their sizing die is a much better idea than RCBS' and most other die makers, too. But dismissing their dies across the board and (by the subject line) all of their products is, in Mike Tyson's best voice, "ludicrous." (say that in a Mike Tyson voice and you'll laugh)

Next point is that I love Lee's decapping system in their sizing dies... it's genius. HOWEVER, I found out three days ago that it's not infallible. I snapped the decapping pin on a 2-year old Lee 9mm sizing die. This die has had a LOT of use and I'm pretty sure that I'm mostly responsible for what happened... let me explain.

The decapper is held by a collet and when it comes up to an object it can't move, the entire decapping rod slides upward in the die body as the collet gets overpowered. No snapping of the pin, and you are shown immediately that there is a problem. Removed the #$&$@'in berdan primed case and toss it, then loosen the collet and slide the decapping rod back in to place and tighten the collet and you are back to 100% and rolling.

This is where I believe I screwed up.

What happens if you OVER TIGHTEN the collet that retains the decapping rod? I've displaced it in the past with a berdan case... probably 3 or 4 times over two years and literally thousands of pulls on the handle.

I must have tightened it too much the last time, because I gave it all the muscle I could and my press has very good leverage and that pin eventually folded over. The piece of berdan primed brass got the biggest damn pimple you've ever seen. Tried to straighten the pin and it snapped off, as expected.

Yup, better than RCBS, but not unbreakable. I stole the decapping rod from my .44 Mag dies for use in 9mm in the mean time. Same exact rod.

One last thing:

Quite a few of the flash holes were off center, which would cause the primer punch to bend when he tried to size the case as it would hit the base instead of the flash hole.

I can see this working... but I'm still left with two things. First is that you have off-center flash holes, seems like you'd have to decap with the universal EACH time, not just the first time, and that SUCKS. Secondly is that all this brass has off-center flash holes, and that's just one warning sign that it's schitty brass. Who knows where else the QC is missing. I'd recycle all that brass and not go near it. The job the brass does is way too important to leave up to some crap brass. Even I am not that frugal, and as frugal as most and more than many.

[jaguarxk120]

Decapping pin breakage is usually due to operator error! Read the instruction book it's in the die box, if you haven't thrown it away!

[garryc]

Sounds to me like you need to check the setup of your press.

That APS priming system will not advance the strips right. The strip gets half advanced and then the pin cuts through the plastic jamming up the works. The only way to get it out is to strip the press or pull it out with plyers. I may have broke it doing that. I'd rather have the tubes. I guess I'll have to pull it apert to see whats up with it. I need a Dillon! From now on all presses will be Dillon or Hornady.

I have hornady and Lee dies run for years with never a problem. Their decapping systems are clearly superior. Nice long neck expanders rather than the abrupt ones used on RCBS. Stout pins rather than a freaking skinny screw.

Decapping pin breakage is usually due to operator error! Read the instruction book it's in the die box, if you haven't thrown it away

And just how do I run with any speed being gentile like I need to be with that piece of crap. On a progressive the whole idea is to run with it. RCBS progressives suck

[jaguarxk120]

Speed comes with practice and patience. If you want to load that fast go buy a Camdex machine. It will load faster than you can shoot, guaranteed.

[grymster2007]

I've experienced no trouble with my RCBS dies. I have a few Lee dies also and while they're adequate, the RCBS seem to be of a bit higher quality and I like the locks better.

[abber]

I have RCBS carbide dies in 7 calibers, and started handloading almost 20 years ago. I probably shouldn't jynx myself this way, but I have never broken a decapping pin.

[rclark]

but I have never broken a decapping pin.

ditto. I have been reloading since about 1983 or so. The dies that get the most use are for .357, .44, and now .45 Colt ... I use a single stage press.

[tkofoid]

Eat moose! 40,000 wolfes can't be wrong!

Use RCBS!,,,,,,,4 million handloaders can't be wrong, either!

(Never have broken a pin, myself) 40 years of handloading using RCBS.

[20nickels]

Check your press timing or try a single stage. I went to the Dillon size/deprime die that is made for progressives.

[kyle663]

lee has a good warrenty, i sent in 2 decapping pins after i called them and within a week had 2 new ones at the house no charge.

[jaguarxk120]

All of the reloading tool mfgr's have very good warrenties and support hot lines.

They stand behind their tooling, if you would call RCBS and explain what's happening, maybe they can help you out.

[FrankenMauser]

With 60+ years (cumulative) worth of RCBS reloading in my family, I think we have broken or bent a total of maybe 8 pins.

6 of those were caused by me. One pin was carelessness. The other 5 were damaged while forcing the dies to do things they were never designed for. (Seriously beyond the bounds of what reloading dies should do.)

Sometimes I really wonder what expectations people have.... (This goes for all brands)
If you watch reloading videos on YouTube, about 50% of them show people literally slamming the handle of their press to its maximum travel in both directions. In an attempt to maximize their production rate; they force inconsistent powder throws, damage cases, improperly seat primers, and spill powder all over their work areas. You'll never feel that off-center flash hole by slamming the handle. You'll never feel that bullet that shifted just before it contacted the seating stem. You'll never feel the sudden increase in resistance, caused by a case you forgot to lube. Impatience is a costly character trait. A trait never acknowledged, but blamed on inaminate objects.


If you want dies that won't fail you... (or, at least, haven't failed anyone in my family)
... Get yourself some Redding dies. They used to be called the "Cadillac of reloading dies" for a reason, and still hold up to the same quality standards.

[73-Captain]

Back in the day, RCBS represented the best that was available.


Just because RCBS is the only brand you use does NOT make them "the best", they NEVER were.

As someone else mentioned... Check out Redding.

I'd also add Forster.

Lyman and Lee are at least as good as RCBS.

C.

[brickeyee]

RCBS had a patent on the toggle action of the Rockchucker press.

For may years it WAS the best since no one else could make it.

He also patented (3,748,950) the primer flipper in 1973.

I have broken a few decapping pins over over the years, usually from debris in the shell.
I purchased the correct size of drill rod and simply cut a new piece as needed.
The 36 inch long rod is still around 30 inches long.

[73-Captain]

"RCBS had a patent on the toggle action of the Rockchucker press."


Like many people I listened to the want to be experts 30 years ago and started out with an RCBS Rockchucker press.

I absolutely hated it and almost quit reloading due to it.

To this day I still call the Rockchucker press the "RockCLUNKER".


Luckily I found someone who wanted my "RockCLUNKER" and "took the money and ran" purchasing a Lyman turret press.

Have been happy reloading ever since!

C.

[billcarey]

Something is wrong with that picture. No brand breaks pins like that...RCBS is a quality die regardless of the bashing. I've been loading with Lyman dies for about 20yrs and didn't break any pins when using a Rockchucker. 2 pins have been broken when I switched to a Lyman turret press and moved the turret with the ram up while cleaning. It hit the pins and bent them.

[10 Spot Terminator]

Out of curiosity is this on Military brass with crimped primers ???

[Jim Thompson]

I understand that the New Rock Chuckers are made in China. I don't think I would get a single stage press if I had it to do again. I'd get a Redding Turret for my utility press and a Dillon 550 or 650 for my progressive.