AB headstamp NATO 5.56 brass at Midway

[Marco Califo]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/775...500?cm_vc=S014

Since this is new brass, there is no military crimp to swage or remove. As with all bulk brass, we recommend sizing before loading. Brass is head stamped with an AB marking, the same as that used for General Dynamic military contract ammunition.

1. Never heard of AB headstamp. It is not on my list.
2. It does not have the NATO mark in the headstamp.
3. There is no year of manufacture in the headstamp.
4. Not understanding the headstamp beyond caliber, I do not know where, or by who, this brass was made.
5. I have no confidence this brass is as good as LC.

[rg1]

New one for me too. Made by American Ballistics, Tyrone Georgia. No idea if they make their own brass or if it's made by another source and headstamped AB.
http://www.amballistics.com/
Looks like they have a Facebook page too?
https://www.facebook.com/AmericanBallistics
General Dynamics has no loyalty to U.S. manufacturing and gets ammunition from international sources such as Taiwan which has TAA headstamps.

[IMtheNRA]

Something here is fishy... MidwayUSA describes it as "General Dynamics" brass. Did GD start manufacturing brass?

[higgite]

It has the same "AB" headstamp as the General Dynamics "overrun" ammo that Midway sells.

American Ballistics is an ammo manufacturer, not a brass manufacturer. General Dynamics OTS-Canada manufactures brass to customers' (like AB) requirements. Looks like Midway may be selling some GD "overrun" brass.

[Unclenick]

Yep. GD is the OEM supplier of brass to American Ballistics. The American Ballistics page says their brass is mil spec.

[IMtheNRA]

Why do you guys think AB brass is made by General Dynamics? I looked at AB's site and there is no mention of GD or any other component suppliers.

[T. O'Heir]

Midway is about marketing. Reality is irrelevant.
ABT is American Ballistics Co., Inc. They're a tiny(10 employees) ammunition maker in Marietta, GA. Is possible GD owns 'em. General Dynamics owns a lot of manufacturers. Like Colt Canada.

[rg1]

A little more info:
http://www.gd-otscanada.com/html/en/...thisSection=78

[skizzums]

interesting to know cases are 30% zinc. I had no idea it was that high

[1100 tac]

The classic alloy for cartridge brass has always been 70-30, to the best of my information.

Reading around, I have seen small variations and trace amounts of other elements, but basically it's 70-30.

[Marco Califo]

I read somewhere that Federal brass is softer. I also keep all my FC away from my LC, and prefer to only load one at the same time.
So, is Federal brass made using a different mix? Or different metallurgy?
Also, I have heard of Chinese brass (not specifically cartridge cases) containing lead. So, I would not be surprise if lead or tin or similar were added to some brass.

[Unclenick]

It's made from low brass (80:20 copper:zinc and its variations) rather than cartridge brass (70:30). I'm not sure why some choose low brass, as zinc is cheaper than copper. There must be some manufacturing advantage. Both can be work hardened to nearly the same degree (Remington, for example, is also low brass), so any difference in hardness is the result of their process choices. Mr. Guffey has posted before that he visited a brass making operation and learned they fully annealed the brass three times at different stages of drawing it. That was because it hardens enough at different stages to require full annealing before further drawing can be done. So its how many forming steps they do after the last anneal that really determines final head and body hardness. The neck and shoulder, get the final anneal in bottleneck rifle brass.

More info here.

[Marco Califo]

Thanks Unclenick

[Unclenick]

You are welcome. I meant to mention that I have always assumed that when you see FC and a year of manufacture and a neck and shoulder annealing stain on the case, that it is made to military specifications, and is not soft like their commercial stuff. They do military contract work, so they could be expected to have the capability of producing either type. Bart B has said he believes they make the commercial stuff softer because they found it produces slightly more accurate ammunition, and their Gold Medal Match line and accuracy reputation are important to them.

So I don't know that segregating your FC from your LC is necessary. In 7.62, you could probably tell if the FC is mil spec by weighing it to see if it's about 5 grains heavier than their commercial brass. In 5.56 and .30-06, though, there's no consistent weight difference between them, so an actual hardness test would need to be done.

[rossman40]

You guys kinda missed what is happening North of the border. General Dynamics bought Industries Valcartier Inc. (IVI headstamp) back in the 80s and then Canadian Arsenals Ltd. (CAL but they used the CIL headstamp IIRC) which were both government owned till then. They have consolidated and basicly is the equivalent of the Lake City plant in Canada producing most of the ammo for the Canadian Forces and other Canadian government agencies (not just small arms, also mortar, artillery and tank ammo). Then in 2001 GD bought the DuPont built Vallyfield powder plant (where IMR powders are made). GD is a heavy hitter in the defense industry and now ranks #5 in the world.

Basicly if you have machines sitting why not produce some product for the civilian side or get rid of over runs. Federal/ATK and Winchester before them used to do that at Lake City.

Don't know why the AB headstamp, maybe an over run or
American Ballistics could be the official importer of record or maybe even they just chose that headstamp to do the run with. The NATO symbol (the plus sign with the circle) would only go on it if it was NATO standard or spec.

Colt Canada is still owned by Colt. They bought out Diemaco back in 2005 and still builds the Canadian Forces version of the M16. Supposedly the main reason Colt purchased Diemaco was Canadian export laws are easier then the US redtape BS and Colt Canada has supplied numerous countries.

China at one time dumped a bunch of counterfeited Radway Green ammo onto the market and it supposedly still pops up.

[Marco Califo]

If it is NATO spec, there is value in that. If it is not NATO spec, then I don't want it unless it is free.

[Unclenick]

The NATO symbol of the circle with crosshairs means a loaded round is compatible for feeding and firing in NATO spec guns. The four leaf clover symbol is added when the ammo also meets STANAG ballistic performance expectations. These symbols would, therefore, not be applied to cases to be loaded to an unknown specifications. I bought several thousand new, never-loaded bulk Lake City cases before all the shortages began and they have no NATO symbols, either. Same reason, I'm sure.


IMtheNRA,

I didn't mean to ignore your question about how I know this brass is made by General Dynamics. I don't know, personally. It's just what Midway is claiming in their description of this AB headstamp brass.