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Old January 10, 2005, 08:36 PM   #51
joab
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Quote:
the chickens were monitored by an animal welfare body.
What organization would that be?
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Old January 10, 2005, 08:53 PM   #52
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Free ranging chickens?

Long Path has it nailed down, it's just a question folks... no need to get your panties in a bunch...

Serenity now...

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Old January 10, 2005, 10:07 PM   #53
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God Bless America.........

This country is the best...... to have such an eye opening debate with all our rights to express ourself.... I love it....... Fun Fun Fun........

and God Bless the Free Range Turkeys too.....
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Old January 10, 2005, 10:47 PM   #54
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Yeah, why is everyone attacking Jan? It was not the least bit deserved. Jan, we're not all as rude as the responses you've gotten so far, other than Long Paths. Folks, she was just saying that, as a principle, the meat she eats was grown in *humane conditions*, chickens and turkeys, one of the humane conditions being a little room to walk around in (free range). That's a perfectly reasonable principle, and like she said, she had to pay a little more for it; just as one pays a tad more for organic vegetables. I for one never knew this existed, because if I did, I'd probably be willing to pay extra for free range stuff - anything that has an assurance of human conditions before the slaughter is worth paying a smidge more for (to me). Just as hunting is humane if I am the hunter. It's a reasonable principle, and people are attacking her on unrelated issues (vegetarian "purism", etc.). Think about what she said exactly; don't make her scapegoat for your anti-PETA, black and white general thoughts on the subject of hunting. Geez.

Agree with Long path and 1234hom.

P.S. OK, the criticism is fair about the statement "I don't hire others to kill for me" - that doesn't make sense, as has been pointed out.
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Old January 10, 2005, 11:02 PM   #55
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Wow..........

It seems to me that no shots were fired.........relax......... enjoy........

we all have ideas to share........nobody got hurt did they?

and the sun shall rise again in the eastern sky.......... and the waters will flow to the seas........ (Chief Scratchumback)

Sorry just trying to break the ice here........I promise I will shut up now...
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Old January 12, 2005, 09:38 AM   #56
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If you don't want to explain yourself, then why answer the post?

Leave her be.
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Old January 12, 2005, 02:19 PM   #57
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cowled wolf, its the freedom food scheme run by the RSPCA.
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Old January 12, 2005, 02:24 PM   #58
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First freedom, Pleased to meet you
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Old January 12, 2005, 02:26 PM   #59
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Hello Longpath
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Old January 12, 2005, 02:29 PM   #60
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Hi Lycanthrope
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Old January 12, 2005, 04:35 PM   #61
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Thats a complex question

You do raise a point that is a least partially valid however its not simply "killing" ethical hunters practice fair chase and kill animals humanely not simply because they can but because it is an enjoyable pastime for some of us and it is the only way other than the grills of cars that the deer population is controlled. i hunt varmints such as prarie dogs in pastures because it has to be done to control them and i hunt coyotes because there are too many of them and they also eat my cats which are responsible for controling mice so i guess you could say its about maintaining balance in nature and the people who decide how many tags to give out definetly know their facts and would stop hunting if it were a bad thing
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Old January 12, 2005, 07:35 PM   #62
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To eat. That, and I really really like the smell of a bowkilled hog smoking in the pit.
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Old January 12, 2005, 10:27 PM   #63
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Hey Lonestar.45

Better the bowkilled hog than the hogkilled bowman......
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Old January 12, 2005, 10:34 PM   #64
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Hey Jan!

I dont get it. Why the heck wont you anser some of these fellas with a lil logic? BTW I heard from somewhere (cant remeber where) that socilisem is big in the EU.... & that some of UK`s Parlament members are socilists... Is this correct? Oh & is it illegal to own a firearm (as in a weapon that fires bullets & in some cases i hear crossbow bolts) in the UK?
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Old January 12, 2005, 10:47 PM   #65
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Socialism is big in Europe especially France, Spain and Germany where you get 50% penison "or more" for being unemployed and can basically go on without a job and get the free paycheck. Unions are huge and hold the business' hostage so profit sucks, And in France it is ILLEGAL to work more than 35 hours a week because some people actually complained when hard workers were taking up the work so they thought they wouldnt be hireed. It goes on and on..and the Europeons wonder why there economy sucks right now. Oh ya and Frances, Germany and Spains unemployment rate is is all around 10%. DOUBLE what ours is and thats huge because their populations are far less than ours. England is sadly giving in to this socialist crap. Firearms are for the most part illegal, while you may be able to buy some guns, you have no where NEAR the selection you have in the US.
I lived in Europe for 4 years "unfortunetly" when I was a teenager. Lived in Stavanger Norway. "Dads in Oil business" To tell you the truth I kinda liked Norway, beautiful country with fjords for fishing and moutains covererd in forrests with a relatively low population, It would be a hunters paradise. but was completely unimpressed with the rest of Europe while we toured it on vaction. England was ok France was not.. dirty country, rude people. The rest was just.. shall I say Overrated

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Old January 13, 2005, 01:29 AM   #66
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Quote:
and the Europeons wonder why there economy sucks right now.
It does? That would be news to economists everywhere. I thought it was the dollar that was in deep trouble, not the euro...
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Old January 13, 2005, 02:03 AM   #67
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Actually if you have been keeping up with this stuff it is quite known that Germany and France are having labor problems,"it involves unions, high taxes and socialist handouts etc." and Im not worried about the dollar at all, things in Europe are becoming expensive and since the dollar is a little weaker now Europeans are coming here to buy things more than normally which is a good thing for us too. I actually was wandering why I was seeing so many Euros here lately compared to normal, shopping sprees...
Looks like their politics isnt stopping them from coming over here to shop.

If you want more info on this buy the magazine "The economist" its a good source of international business info.
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Old January 13, 2005, 04:22 AM   #68
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Contrary to what the neo-conservative talking heads and international investors say, turning us into another China for the benefit of Europa is not a "good thing". The establishment types will use any excuse they can come up with to prop up their flawed system in Europe and ours in the States.

Sorry, we got some serious thread drift going on here and it's mostly my fault..

I won't be responding anymore in this thread.
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Old January 13, 2005, 11:10 AM   #69
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Ever try to find prime elk meat at your grocery? Also, its kind of an excuse to get away from the wife, people, etc and just relax, do what YOU want, get back to the basic nature of nature. No stupid cell phones, bosses nagging you, dishes, you know, the crap that makes your life miserable. Plus, was always kind of a father-son bonding experience. Never had as much fun hunting as i did with my dad (have hunted with him since i was 15, then i moved to FL, havent hunted since).
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Old January 13, 2005, 04:53 PM   #70
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Jan, I have a suggeston

This is an PRO-GUN and PRO hunting for the most part.
I say this incase you diddnt understand that
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Old January 13, 2005, 07:21 PM   #71
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alright whats the point

we've all raised valid points here except maybe Jan. We all seem to agree that "killing" isnt the right term, that deer and other wild game taste good and jan actually does hire people to kill for her even with the "free-range" animals unless they are live. neither do the rest of us hire people to "kill" for us because as hunters we do it all ourselves. it would appear to me that the anti hunting and anti gun people have no logic behind their arguments and cant stand up to a little bit of argument without folding

someday the liberals will lose and our gun control laws in canada will fail and that very day im going out to buy an AR just because i can (thats right im a redneck)
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Old January 13, 2005, 08:46 PM   #72
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<why do you Kill ? >

Hey, he was comin right at me! Vicious little buggers them tree rats.

I waste no meat. Mmmmmmustard!!
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Old January 13, 2005, 08:46 PM   #73
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Quote:
Jan, I have a suggeston
This is an PRO-GUN and PRO hunting for the most part.
I say this incase you diddnt understand that
But it's open to everyone.

Jan's from the UK, and may have some trouble learning our perspective. Help her out, okay?
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Old January 13, 2005, 09:30 PM   #74
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welcome Jan

I have conflicting ideas about meat myself. don't get me wrong i'm big on hunting love the time outdoors and the chase (i've come home empty handed more then a few times). I grew up on a farm and hav e butchered stock, i go hunting and don't have any regrets, the thing that bothers me is Factory farming. in hunting and family farming, animals are treated humanely and thier death is swift. in factory farming the family suffers horrors i would wish on the worst people in the world

America greatly values independance as a society (i'm an anthropology student i spend lots of time studying this S***) and hunting is bar none of the truest expressions of idependance.
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Old January 13, 2005, 10:12 PM   #75
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hey, hey, hey, calm down folks. I'm from the UK and damn proud of it. Please dont start with national stereotypes.
Okay, Britain does have very strict gun control laws. Yes, they are irrational. 20 years ago you could buy AK47s there. Michael Ryan changed all that. Its like having Columbine and then banning all the weapons they used. Yes, the arowhead hunting bolts are now illegal, as is virtually any form of weapon on the streets. Feel free to ask any UK related questions anytime.
Back to topic, kinda, I will probably never hunt. I can see how real hunting (a la "deer hunter" scenes) can be quite an experience. I cannot see how sitting next to a feeder is really hunting, but then I've never done it. I don't see the problem with hunting as long as the animal you shoot isn't wasted. It's much better than buying the crap they sell in some supermarkets (full of drugs, maybe BSE). I used to be vegetarian, but I figured the real problem is the factory farming that is so prevalent. If you have respect for nature, then i have respect for you.
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