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February 27, 2012, 06:20 PM | #26 | |
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What would you have done?
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February 27, 2012, 06:48 PM | #27 |
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I think the most important lesson to be learned here is that "avoidance" means more than just staying out of bad neighborhoods. Bad relationship choices can lead to bad situations. It's nice to say that women aren't possessions, but that doesn't change the fact that fooling with a woman who is in relationship with somebody else is likely to lead to conflict.
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February 27, 2012, 09:35 PM | #28 |
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From the video alone it could have went either way. A hand picked jury could have been swayed for sure. Not enough info for any of us to make a judgement. There must have been a history of violence and threats as well as the moments of chase before the video brought to light in the trial. Just from that video alone and no testimony would be hard for me to justify the shoot. Shooter had a good lawyer.
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February 27, 2012, 09:50 PM | #29 | ||
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Quote:
Deaf
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February 27, 2012, 09:55 PM | #30 |
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One his personal choices were bad in ethics of a relationship. But i will say the aggressive nature of the charging the defender and him almost striking his car in the process calls for self defense. The arrest in no way was police brutality or over use of force. If a man rushed me and i cant id a weapon or not i would draw a weapon. He rushed him like an idiot and scared him. Open shut case of someone being a moron.
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February 28, 2012, 03:33 AM | #31 |
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Is a police station a no firearms zone ? I wonder if it was expected that Waller would be unarmed by Childress. The guy had to be doing some heavy thinking as he chased Waller through town. He must have known Waller carried a gun (via the woman in center stage in this scenario). I think Waller must have had his gun in his hand when he got out of his car, as the shooting took place very quickly. In California one is expected to take a beatdown before resorting to lethal force.
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February 28, 2012, 05:52 AM | #32 |
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If Childress was headshot (and from the video it looks like the last shot was, by the way he went down), a team of Boston surgeons probably couldn't have helped him, much less the average LEO.
Not being willing to shoot an unarmed man is a foolish thought... How do you know he's unarmed unless he is naked? You take a big risk engaging in any kind of fight besides a gunfight while carrying a pistol. If it is taken then it can be turned on you or any number of innocent bystanders. Not really a smart risk to take. Get your high school ideas of being a tough guy out of your head or take off the damn gun.
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February 28, 2012, 09:02 AM | #33 |
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I agree with Ben Towe in the post above. In a situation like this, although ill advised in the first place to be in this situation, with circumstances considered the shooting was appropriate to me if he feared for his life which he did and then proved in court.
I believe someone said he had no right to shoot him unarmed. He did it, was charged with murder, and was acquitted on the grounds of self defense, so he did have some right to shoot here obviously. I've never been in a fight since I've started carrying and don't plan on every being in one, I'll either run away deescalate as much as I can or do what I need to defend myself. As to the parties involved, both these guys were asking for trouble based on all the info and although the shooter was acquitted in this case it does not seem like he should be carrying a gun if he's introducing himself into situations like this. Ain't nothing like a women to get a man acting crazy. Emotions and guns don't mix. Leave 'em at home when you strap on and walk out the door. |
February 28, 2012, 09:15 AM | #34 | ||
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February 28, 2012, 10:06 AM | #35 |
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Can't see the video at work, but 2 thoughts based on the articles and comments:
-should've been on the phone with 911 as soon as he realized he was being pursued -I probably would've stayed in the car to keep castle doctrine coverage. Under NC law if he was unarmed, you'd probably be facing the same murder charges unless you were under castle doctrine. |
February 28, 2012, 10:29 AM | #36 |
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Just in case anyone wants to order a transcript of the trial, the case was tried in the Faulkner County, Arkansas, Circuit Court, Third Division, the Honorable Charles Clawson, Jr., presiding. It was docket number CR-2010-827. The Arkansas Judicial Directory, through which you can track down the court reporter's contact information, can be downloaded here: https://courts.arkansas.gov/ by opening up the "Publications" menu on the left side.
Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in any fees charged for the preparation of the afore-mentioned transcript.
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February 28, 2012, 10:30 AM | #37 | |
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And the flip side of extending Castle Doctrine to vehicles is we all need to understand the danger in approaching someone's vehicle and trying to forcibly enter it (or do something that might be perceived that way like beat on the doors or windows) in those states where Castle Doctrine extends to vehicles. An acquaintance was telling me of a "road rage" incident where he was repeatedly endangered by a drunk. At a red light, he got out of his car, walked to the other's car and opened the drunk's door to find a pistol pointing at him. The drunk had definitely earned some personal counseling; but had the drunk shot my acquaintance, he might well have been justified under Castle Doctrine. |
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February 28, 2012, 10:41 AM | #38 |
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According to what was seen in the video the shooting was justified self-defense. What happened prior to that is immaterial really in the eyes of the court. Keep in mind that he'd been charged with murder and claimed self defense in regards to the act of killing Childress. From what can be seen its self defense regardless of how immoral or wrong the events that lead up to this might have been.
To all of you who are saying you wouldn't have shot because he was unarmed... how do you know he was unarmed? He could have had a knife tucked behind his shirt... and I know of plenty of guys who could kill you without a weapon. I'll be frank and say that if it was one of them and you'd messed with their wife you'd better gun them down if they were rushing you like that. If not it'd be you dead on the ground and him being arrested for murder - and he wouldn't need a weapon for that. Forget all the movie and macho stuff about not shooting someone who seemed unarmed. If you perceive your life or physical safety in actual danger the do what you carry for - draw and defend yourself. There's a quote I've read around here often - "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6." This is all too true. If you're not prepared to draw and shoot to defend yourself or you loved ones just because you think your attacker is unarmed then sell your EDC weapon and learn to fight like Jet Li.
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February 28, 2012, 10:44 AM | #39 | ||
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Arkansas and the Castle Doctrine
If Castle Doctrine is going to be debated, I'll set out what Arkansas has on the books.
First, Ark. Code Ann. 5-2-607: Use of deadly physical force in defense of a person Quote:
Second, Ark. Code Ann. § 5-2-620. Defense, person or property Quote:
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February 28, 2012, 11:04 AM | #40 | |
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February 28, 2012, 12:23 PM | #41 |
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Let's see - the guy chased him down to the police station. Nearly slammed his SUV into his vehicle and blocked off exit route. Then he leaves his vehicle and rushes the shooter.
Frankly if I were in his situation I'd be fearing for my life or at very least fearing serious bodily injury. That warrants drawing and shooting. Anything less and you're risking your life on a chance he won't pummel you to death or cause serious brain injury and make you a vegetable for the rest of your life.
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February 28, 2012, 12:44 PM | #42 |
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Does Arkansas have any laws pertaining to stand your ground? If so, castle doctrine would be a moot point.
As far as the don't mess with a woman who is in a relationship. 3 people acted like fools. The man messing with a woman in an obviously committed relationship, the woman, messing around outside of her very committed relationship, and the man who stayed with the woman who messed around outside of their very committed relationship and went looking for a fight to preserve her honor (or his own) A man who has a beef with me chases me through town, stops his car a few feet from mine and charges me obviously intends to do great bodily harm. If my gun was holstered when he was pulling up, it isn't when he leaps out.
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February 28, 2012, 12:48 PM | #43 | |
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Quote:
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February 28, 2012, 12:52 PM | #44 |
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Typically a "Stand Your Ground" law removes the duty to retreat in a public place. It appears Arkansas still requires you to retreat in a public place if you can do so safely. It also looks like Arkansas Castle Doctrine only extends to the home, so in this case Waller would not gain any extra legal advantage by staying in his car.
I might have to order that transcript now so I can see how Waller's lawyer handled the argument for duty to retreat. |
February 28, 2012, 01:19 PM | #45 | |||
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BR, your analysis is just a little off. Quote:
I would agree that the car does not afford him any extra legal protection in Arkansas, but I'm not convinced that he was under a duty to retreat, either.
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February 28, 2012, 01:39 PM | #46 |
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Yes, I think you are right. I am so used to seeing the "with safety" qualifier in duty-to-retreat statutes that I kind of skimmed over that and didn't appreciate the emphasis on "complete safety."
Depending how the courts read that, that is a very fine dstinction from no duty to retreat at all since it would be rare you could ever retreat in "complete" safety. |
February 28, 2012, 01:47 PM | #47 |
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I think "with safety" is a pretty standard wording, but it looks like this has been our law since 1975. I'm digging around to see how it's been handled by our Supreme Court. I'll get some good quotes up in just a little bit, so that you can see how the contours of our duty to retreat have been drawn.
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February 28, 2012, 02:18 PM | #48 |
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You really never know who you are dealing with. Not sure what the man in the SUVs plan was, but he paid the ultimate price for his action. In the end the lesson is "think" before you act. It looks like the shooter clearly "reacted" to a threat.
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February 28, 2012, 06:08 PM | #49 |
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Guy 'has relations' with another guys girl then kills the guy and people complain how the police treat him.
X 478 gajillion. |
February 28, 2012, 06:21 PM | #50 |
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Regardless of the shooters advances towards the shootee's girlfriend. The shootee followed like a stalker, then rushed him. I do not blame the man for defending himself with force. The man that was shot learned a lesson to die for. Not everyone gets to live to learn the lesson.
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