Myths vs reality ...

Romeo 33 Delta · March 31, 2011, 08:37 PM

I have some old IMR-4227 (8# metal can) and also some newer H-4227 and wonder about switching over to H-4227 when I'm out of the IMR. So the question would be ... what, if any, interchangeability would there be between the two powders? I realize they do not have the same burn rates and aren't exactly alike, but I had to ask.

I started with IMR years ago the then drifted into H-4227 for some loads but wonder what to do about my IMR loads when I can't find it anymore.

Nice, easy solutions are always so convenient ... but rarely exist ... or do they?

mc223 · March 31, 2011, 09:04 PM

Easy it never is. Well sometimes.

In my opinion you really need to work your loads up with the different powder.

Lot to lot variations are enough to be an issue. But old and who knows who made the stuff. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Hodgdon. I am not totally sure that Hodgdon makes the H4227.

I'm sure that someone who knows will chime in with the rest of the story.

o

Wag · March 31, 2011, 10:59 PM

You're most likely going to have to work up your loads again. It's going to be the same powder for the most part but the new powder is going to burn just a tad differently.

This is especially true if you're using max loads.

--Wag--

ipscchef · March 31, 2011, 11:43 PM

This is just the little bit of info that I know that I hope will help.
Hodgdens has never actualy made any powder themselves, they buy powders from other companies that actualy make it. One example is the H-110 that they sell is really WW296, which I think is really made by a Winchester plant. Before I go on, I want to be very clear on this, I AM NOT ANY KIND OF AN EXPERT, WHAT I AM SAYING ARE THINGS THAT I BELIEVE TO BE TRUE, BUT I CANNOT VERIFY ANY OF THIS. Having said that, I believe that you can verify what I am saying relatively easily by calling Hodgdons.
I went back to my oldest Hodgdens manual, 2006, and they list no loads for
H4227. But I have spoken with the fine people at Hodgdens a few times, and they will most likely be happy to give you all of the advice that you need on your loads. They do own the rights, I think that is the proper term, to all IMR powders, as well as most if not all of the Winchester line. Again, contact them by phone or email, and I think that they will be able to help you. I hope that this may be of some help.
Bill "Willy" Henderson

BTW, A big +1 for mc223, especialy when dealing with older powders, not only can lot to lot variations make a signifegant difference, when you are talking about a decade or more even in the same powder, there can be a large varient, Blue Dot and Unique are two examples that come to mind. I would suggest that you have the lot # of your H4227 on hand when you talk to Hoddgdons, they may give you some signifigantly different load info for that based on its production year.

Ideal Tool · April 1, 2011, 01:13 AM

Hello, Romeo 33 Delta. I don't want to shock you...But..there is no more
H4227..When Hodgdon took over IMR, they dropped this one! I too like the H

4227..when I heard about the merger, I stocked up on all the H4227 I could find. Now here is the interesting part..I had called Hodgdon to ask if they had quantities of this left for possible purchase, I explaned that it shot better in my Hornet than the IMR brand. The technician told me that they too had found their brand shot better than the IMR (of course?), but the new powder will be packaged under the IMR label....BUT it will be H4227!
Now I don't have any of the new IMR 4227, but it sure would be interesting if someone with some acccurate rifles, and possibly a chronograph could do some comparision testing between these powders!

Romeo 33 Delta · April 1, 2011, 11:07 PM

It just gets curiouser and curiouser, doesn't it?

Thanks guys ... didn't think it would be easy. The good news is that by the time I need to find replacements for either or both ... there will probably be something totally new to replace them ... or the names will be changed ... just to confuse me even more. Yikes!!!:barf:

March 31, 2011, 08:37 PM	#1
Romeo 33 Delta Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2009 Posts: 315	Myths vs reality ... I have some old IMR-4227 (8# metal can) and also some newer H-4227 and wonder about switching over to H-4227 when I'm out of the IMR. So the question would be ... what, if any, interchangeability would there be between the two powders? I realize they do not have the same burn rates and aren't exactly alike, but I had to ask. I started with IMR years ago the then drifted into H-4227 for some loads but wonder what to do about my IMR loads when I can't find it anymore. Nice, easy solutions are always so convenient ... but rarely exist ... or do they?

March 31, 2011, 09:04 PM	#2
mc223 Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Location: n/w Wisconsin Posts: 365	Easy it never is. Well sometimes. In my opinion you really need to work your loads up with the different powder. Lot to lot variations are enough to be an issue. But old and who knows who made the stuff. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Hodgdon. I am not totally sure that Hodgdon makes the H4227. I'm sure that someone who knows will chime in with the rest of the story. o __________________ . I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you. 0° 5150

March 31, 2011, 10:59 PM	#3
Wag Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2010 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 988	You're most likely going to have to work up your loads again. It's going to be the same powder for the most part but the new powder is going to burn just a tad differently. This is especially true if you're using max loads. --Wag-- __________________ "Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.

March 31, 2011, 11:43 PM	#4
ipscchef Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: South Central Pa. Posts: 427	Two more cents, Hey, I'm running out of pennies! This is just the little bit of info that I know that I hope will help. Hodgdens has never actualy made any powder themselves, they buy powders from other companies that actualy make it. One example is the H-110 that they sell is really WW296, which I think is really made by a Winchester plant. Before I go on, I want to be very clear on this, I AM NOT ANY KIND OF AN EXPERT, WHAT I AM SAYING ARE THINGS THAT I BELIEVE TO BE TRUE, BUT I CANNOT VERIFY ANY OF THIS. Having said that, I believe that you can verify what I am saying relatively easily by calling Hodgdons. I went back to my oldest Hodgdens manual, 2006, and they list no loads for H4227. But I have spoken with the fine people at Hodgdens a few times, and they will most likely be happy to give you all of the advice that you need on your loads. They do own the rights, I think that is the proper term, to all IMR powders, as well as most if not all of the Winchester line. Again, contact them by phone or email, and I think that they will be able to help you. I hope that this may be of some help. Bill "Willy" Henderson BTW, A big +1 for mc223, especialy when dealing with older powders, not only can lot to lot variations make a signifegant difference, when you are talking about a decade or more even in the same powder, there can be a large varient, Blue Dot and Unique are two examples that come to mind. I would suggest that you have the lot # of your H4227 on hand when you talk to Hoddgdons, they may give you some signifigantly different load info for that based on its production year. __________________ Don' keep shooting them until you think they are dead, Keep shooting them until they think they are dead.- Clint Smith Last edited by ipscchef; March 31, 2011 at 11:51 PM. Reason: Addendum

April 1, 2011, 01:13 AM	#5
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Hello, Romeo 33 Delta. I don't want to shock you...But..there is no more H4227..When Hodgdon took over IMR, they dropped this one! I too like the H4227..when I heard about the merger, I stocked up on all the H4227 I could find. Now here is the interesting part..I had called Hodgdon to ask if they had quantities of this left for possible purchase, I explaned that it shot better in my Hornet than the IMR brand. The technician told me that they too had found their brand shot better than the IMR (of course?), but the new powder will be packaged under the IMR label....BUT it will be H4227! Now I don't have any of the new IMR 4227, but it sure would be interesting if someone with some acccurate rifles, and possibly a chronograph could do some comparision testing between these powders!

April 1, 2011, 11:07 PM	#6
Romeo 33 Delta Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2009 Posts: 315	It just gets curiouser and curiouser, doesn't it? Thanks guys ... didn't think it would be easy. The good news is that by the time I need to find replacements for either or both ... there will probably be something totally new to replace them ... or the names will be changed ... just to confuse me even more. Yikes!!!:barf:

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