DEWC's vs HBWC's

stephen b · August 15, 2002, 11:48 AM

Greetings fellow reloaders,
I'm very new to this part of my hobby but I'm full of questions, that I hope I can get some answers to.
I have purchased both 148 grain plated DEWC's and HBWC's, to shoot both 38 spec. and .357 mag. I have read that it is unwise to exceed 900 fps with the HBWC's but that going over this limit with the DEWC's is acceptable. My questions is what are the advangtages of the HBWC's over the DEWC's and what are the limitations of the DEWC's. It is difficult getting relaoding infor for shooting these out of a .357 mag. I was told that it is somewhat more accurate shooting .375 mag. rounds out of a .357 mag than 38 spec. out of the 357. That's why I want to load these WC's for my 357.
Thanks for solving at least one of these mysteries for me.

stephen b

stans · August 15, 2002, 12:02 PM

Welcome to the Firing Line!!!

Some 357's are more accurate with Magnum length cases, some don't care at all. The hollowbase wadcutters are usually swaged from a soft lead allow. The hollow base is supposed to expand to completely fill the bore of the revolver. Cast DEWC's are usually, but not always, cast of a harder alloy to allow higher velocities. I have never loaded HBWC's, so I cannot say how one compares with the other as far as accuracy is concerned. I have always used Magnum length brass for my 357's. This helps prevent a build up of lube, lead and powder residue that might inhibit the insertion of Magnum length rounds. As far as loads go, I usually take the data for 38 Special and add 0.5 grains, that usually gets me in the ball park.

Jim Watson · August 15, 2002, 05:07 PM

Double-ended wadcutters are made largely for the convenience of the commercial reloading industry. It doesn't matter which end is up as they feed from a hopper. Nearly all target shooters of my acquaintance use swaged hollow-based wadcutters. Bevel-based wadcutters - not double-ended - are adequate for many uses and can be driven at higher velocity.

Swaged wadcutters have been more accurate than cast ones I have shot.

The Ranier copper plated double-ended wadcutter may well be the LEAST accurate bullet I have seen. A friend tried them and they would not stay on a four-FOOT target backer at 50 yards. This from a gun that shot swaged wadcutters well under 4" and .357 JHPs under 3" at the same range... from a Ransom rest.

I have not tried or even seen a plated hollow-based wadcutter. Good luck.

labgrade · August 19, 2002, 12:39 AM

I've tried a few BB & DE wadcutters & can never seem to get the accuracy of HBWCs - YMMV.

All points made above are on-target, 'cept that I always use .38 cases for .38 loads & .357 for magnum loads. Coupla times the longer cases are a bit harder to stuff in the cylinder, but no big deal & problem goes away at first cleaning.

Never seen a decent .357 that didn't shoot HBWCs very accurately.

IMNSHO, other than a .38 defense loading, there's no need to shoot anything but wadcutters in a .38 - cat's meow .... not you, just me. Gotta be 90%+ of my .38 cal ammo.

nyetter · August 19, 2002, 08:43 PM

I find Rainier DEWC's quite accurate, though I don't shoot at distances where that could really be tested.

Berry's (www.berrysmfg.com) makes plated HBWC's.

Paul Fitz Jones · August 29, 2002, 02:03 PM

HBWC bullets are designed with soft lead for good sectional density and accuracy at target velocities of a max of 800fps.

Faster than that has had the center of the bullets blowing out leaving the rest of the bullet in the chamber causing damage when another round is fired into it which has happened.

The HBWC is a low velocity target bullet and has no business in a .357 mag at 357 mag velocities

Southla1 · August 29, 2002, 02:49 PM

I load both quite regularly. The double end I cast and of course I purchase the HBWC. I cast until I stumble on a good deal on E-bay or the likes on HBWC's

.

fitz pistol grips is correct when he says "The HBWC is a low velocity target bullet and has no business in a .357 mag at 357 mag velocities" . some do load the HBWC upside down and hot to make a superexpanding bullet. My advice is "DON'T". The accuracy is s***.

I use both the DEWC and the HBWC in .38 Spl cases at target velocity only, both in my S&W Mod 52 and my S&W .357. Of course the 52 is more accurate but its hard to tell the difference between the 2 bullets in the same gun. The higest load I use is 3 grains of Bullseye in these cases and with these 148 grain bullets.

VictorLouis · August 29, 2002, 07:49 PM

on the Rainer DEWC. So, I'll probably be shooting them for years to come. Still, I don't load so much for bullseye accuracy as I do for easy practice fodder. I don't know that I'd go so far as to describe them as bad as Jim Watson, but certainly my guns are all capable of better than 3"-4" that this bullet holds.

stephen b · August 30, 2002, 10:25 AM

Thanks everyone,
I certainly do appreciate your responses. They have helped my understanding of this subject a great deal.
In response to your reply Southla 1., I have only .357's for indoor target work. In theory using a .357 case in a .357 cylinder would be more accurate than using a 38 cal case in a .357 cylinder. I thought I might try loading WC's in .357 cases with .38 cal loads plus some to compensate for the extra space in the case. I did not want to fire either DEWC's or HBWC's with magnum loads or velocities. Is my reasoning sound? Also the proper case would keep the cylinders cleaner and would not build up that unwanted ridge that comes form shooting the shorter .38's.

With so much to learn,

stephen b

Southla1 · August 30, 2002, 11:56 AM

Steve your reasoning is plumb sound. I have never had a problem with the build up of lead at the mouth of .38 cases in a .357 but then again I have never fired more than 300 rounds before a through cleaning. I do know that over many rounds with no cleaning a rough spot can occur. To be honest with you I tried loading the wadcutters (both DEWC and HBWC) in a .357 case at .38 target level velocities and fired them and some loaded in .38 cases in my .357 and could not see the difference between the two. Both shot into the X ring of a standard 25 yard outdoor pistol target at 25 yards. The .38 loads in my S&W 52 did the same. I kinda figured it ain't broke so I aint fixing it.

August 15, 2002, 11:48 AM	#1
stephen b Member Join Date: August 15, 2002 Location: Vashon, WA. Posts: 27	DEWC's vs HBWC's Greetings fellow reloaders, I'm very new to this part of my hobby but I'm full of questions, that I hope I can get some answers to. I have purchased both 148 grain plated DEWC's and HBWC's, to shoot both 38 spec. and .357 mag. I have read that it is unwise to exceed 900 fps with the HBWC's but that going over this limit with the DEWC's is acceptable. My questions is what are the advangtages of the HBWC's over the DEWC's and what are the limitations of the DEWC's. It is difficult getting relaoding infor for shooting these out of a .357 mag. I was told that it is somewhat more accurate shooting .375 mag. rounds out of a .357 mag than 38 spec. out of the 357. That's why I want to load these WC's for my 357. Thanks for solving at least one of these mysteries for me. stephen b __________________ stephen b

August 29, 2002, 02:03 PM	#6
Paul Fitz Jones Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2002 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 266	HBWC HBWC bullets are designed with soft lead for good sectional density and accuracy at target velocities of a max of 800fps. Faster than that has had the center of the bullets blowing out leaving the rest of the bullet in the chamber causing damage when another round is fired into it which has happened. The HBWC is a low velocity target bullet and has no business in a .357 mag at 357 mag velocities __________________ Paul Fitz Jones Retired and Loving It Industry Manufacturer Competitor Police Firearms Instructor

August 29, 2002, 07:49 PM	#8
VictorLouis Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,302	I stumbled into the deal of a lifetime on the Rainer DEWC. So, I'll probably be shooting them for years to come. Still, I don't load so much for bullseye accuracy as I do for easy practice fodder. I don't know that I'd go so far as to describe them as bad as Jim Watson, but certainly my guns are all capable of better than 3"-4" that this bullet holds.

August 30, 2002, 10:25 AM	#9
stephen b Member Join Date: August 15, 2002 Location: Vashon, WA. Posts: 27	HBWC vs DEWC Thanks everyone, I certainly do appreciate your responses. They have helped my understanding of this subject a great deal. In response to your reply Southla 1., I have only .357's for indoor target work. In theory using a .357 case in a .357 cylinder would be more accurate than using a 38 cal case in a .357 cylinder. I thought I might try loading WC's in .357 cases with .38 cal loads plus some to compensate for the extra space in the case. I did not want to fire either DEWC's or HBWC's with magnum loads or velocities. Is my reasoning sound? Also the proper case would keep the cylinders cleaner and would not build up that unwanted ridge that comes form shooting the shorter .38's. With so much to learn, stephen b __________________ stephen b

August 15, 2002, 12:02 PM	#2
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	Welcome to the Firing Line!!! Some 357's are more accurate with Magnum length cases, some don't care at all. The hollowbase wadcutters are usually swaged from a soft lead allow. The hollow base is supposed to expand to completely fill the bore of the revolver. Cast DEWC's are usually, but not always, cast of a harder alloy to allow higher velocities. I have never loaded HBWC's, so I cannot say how one compares with the other as far as accuracy is concerned. I have always used Magnum length brass for my 357's. This helps prevent a build up of lube, lead and powder residue that might inhibit the insertion of Magnum length rounds. As far as loads go, I usually take the data for 38 Special and add 0.5 grains, that usually gets me in the ball park.

August 15, 2002, 05:07 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,560	Double-ended wadcutters are made largely for the convenience of the commercial reloading industry. It doesn't matter which end is up as they feed from a hopper. Nearly all target shooters of my acquaintance use swaged hollow-based wadcutters. Bevel-based wadcutters - not double-ended - are adequate for many uses and can be driven at higher velocity. Swaged wadcutters have been more accurate than cast ones I have shot. The Ranier copper plated double-ended wadcutter may well be the LEAST accurate bullet I have seen. A friend tried them and they would not stay on a four-FOOT target backer at 50 yards. This from a gun that shot swaged wadcutters well under 4" and .357 JHPs under 3" at the same range... from a Ransom rest. I have not tried or even seen a plated hollow-based wadcutter. Good luck.

August 19, 2002, 12:39 AM	#4
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	I've tried a few BB & DE wadcutters & can never seem to get the accuracy of HBWCs - YMMV. All points made above are on-target, 'cept that I always use .38 cases for .38 loads & .357 for magnum loads. Coupla times the longer cases are a bit harder to stuff in the cylinder, but no big deal & problem goes away at first cleaning. Never seen a decent .357 that didn't shoot HBWCs very accurately. IMNSHO, other than a .38 defense loading, there's no need to shoot anything but wadcutters in a .38 - cat's meow .... not you, just me. Gotta be 90%+ of my .38 cal ammo.

August 19, 2002, 08:43 PM	#5
nyetter Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 342	I find Rainier DEWC's quite accurate, though I don't shoot at distances where that could really be tested. Berry's (www.berrysmfg.com) makes plated HBWC's.

August 29, 2002, 02:49 PM	#7
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	I load both quite regularly. The double end I cast and of course I purchase the HBWC. I cast until I stumble on a good deal on E-bay or the likes on HBWC's . fitz pistol grips is correct when he says "The HBWC is a low velocity target bullet and has no business in a .357 mag at 357 mag velocities" . some do load the HBWC upside down and hot to make a superexpanding bullet. My advice is "DON'T". The accuracy is s***. I use both the DEWC and the HBWC in .38 Spl cases at target velocity only, both in my S&W Mod 52 and my S&W .357. Of course the 52 is more accurate but its hard to tell the difference between the 2 bullets in the same gun. The higest load I use is 3 grains of Bullseye in these cases and with these 148 grain bullets.

August 30, 2002, 11:56 AM	#10
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	Steve your reasoning is plumb sound. I have never had a problem with the build up of lead at the mouth of .38 cases in a .357 but then again I have never fired more than 300 rounds before a through cleaning. I do know that over many rounds with no cleaning a rough spot can occur. To be honest with you I tried loading the wadcutters (both DEWC and HBWC) in a .357 case at .38 target level velocities and fired them and some loaded in .38 cases in my .357 and could not see the difference between the two. Both shot into the X ring of a standard 25 yard outdoor pistol target at 25 yards. The .38 loads in my S&W 52 did the same. I kinda figured it ain't broke so I aint fixing it.