Reloading problem 30.06

[Bobrm2]

I've a 100 or so cases of range brass, some cases are military. I've trimmed them back to .294 if memor serves. I'm using CCI #34 primers and started with 49 gr.'s of Varget.

I'm loading for a Springfield 1903, that I've reassembled from several different guns. Unsure of actual head space.

1st cartridge out of the Lee, loaded tight, more than snug, in the chamber. After I fired the shot and observed the cartridge head; there are marks where the bolt rubbed hard against the cartridge head, and the primer is blown back .010 estimated, and primer hull is distorted.

I did use the Lee FCD, and suspect that I didn't have it adjusted correctly. It's the suspicion that will get one in trouble. I believe that I can turn in the FCD to obtain the proper dimension from the shoulder to the head??

I'm hoping a more experienced hand will step in and tell me a few things. Like, do I need any further expensive equiptment to load target/hunting rounds. I would like to build a great round, just don't know where to go from here.

This is a project of a 64 year old that remember the 03 his grandad let him drag around as a young boy of 4 or 5.

Thanks

Bob R

[Doodlebugger45]

First off, I would stop using the FCD. You don't need it and it can actually create problems.

Secondly, if it fit tight when chambered, that indicates it is either too long or more likely, it didn't get sized enough. Just to double check here, when you ran it through the FL sizer, did you screw the die down an extra turn after it contacts the shellholder? That eliminates the chance that the press is flexing and not fully resizing.

Another thing is your trim length doesn't make sense to me. You trimmed after FL resizing right? and then measured it? The number should be something about like 2.484" or so.

Finally, what overall length was the cartridge after you seated the bullet?

[Bobrm2]

I can see that my notes aren't complete.

Check that, will lay it aside.

"First off, I would stop using the FCD. You don't need it and it can actually create problems."


Will make sure to make the extra turn as you say below.
"Secondly, if it fit tight when chambered, that indicates it is either too long or more likely, it didn't get sized enough. Just to double check here, when you ran it through the FL sizer, did you screw the die down an extra turn after it contacts the shellholder? That eliminates the chance that the press is flexing and not fully resizing."


Just back from shop, average trim length is .278 from 4 random cases. One of the cases was .275. Also a new Hornady case trimmer.


I am not sure, but I think I got out of sequence and trimmer before not after FL resizing.

"Another thing is your trim length doesn't make sense to me. You trimmed after FL resizing right? and then measured it? The number should be something about like 2.484" or so."

Cartridges OAL 3.262 average.
"Finally, what overall length was the cartridge after you seated the bullet?


Doodlebugger45 is offline Report Post

[Bamashooter]

The trim length should be 2.484-2.485'' I usually drop it right in the middle. I reload for the same rifle. My oal is 3.25'' using 155SMK and 50gr. of IMR-4895 at 2900-2925fps from a 24'' Barrel.

[mehavey]

Can the OP please:

- Remeasure the resized case length. Numbers like "0.275" do not compute. How long are the cases from base to mouth ?

- Take a picture of the marks where "...the bolt rubbed hard against the cartridge head." Are these on the actual base of the case where (for example) the brass could have flowed into the extractor groove of the bolt face ?

- Clarify whether the fired primers were actually left protruding from ("backed out of") the case.

We need those answers to get a handle on whether you have a headspace/sizing problem, a small-base problem, or an over-pressure problem (e.g., from case length/jam-fit-in-throat, etc)

[Bobrm2]

Can the OP please:
--Should be 2.275 or .009 short. That's the distance from head of the case to the mouth.
- Remeasure the resized case length. Numbers like "0.275" do not compute. How long are the cases from base to mouth ?


--Haven't the best camera, but a pic is attached. That I believe will be usefull.
- Take a picture of the marks where "...the bolt rubbed hard against the cartridge head." Are these on the actual base of the case where (for example) the brass could have flowed into the extractor groove of the bolt face ?


--Fired primer can be seem protruding (backed out of) from the head.
- Clarify whether the fired primers were actually left protruding from ("backed out of") the case.

Marks produced by the bolt face can, just bearly be seen at the 4 o'clock and 10 o'clock positions in the last photo.

We need those answers to get a handle on whether you have a headspace/sizing problem, a small-base problem, or an over-pressure problem (e.g., from case length/jam-fit-in-throat, etc)
mehavey is offline

[rg1]

Like already mentioned, the trim length should be 2.484" to a maximum length of 2.494".
I'd forget the Factory Crimp Die which may be causing your problem? Sounds like your sizing die is oversizing the shoulder pushing it back too far for your chamber. A case gauge would be helpful in setting up your sizing die. If you oversize the shoulder, when the firing pin hits the cartridge in the chamber it will push the case forward and when it expands it grips the case against the walls of the chamber. The primer can back out of the case the amount of excessive headspace. The primer will back out until it hits the bolt face. Without a gauge I'd start with the sizing die not touching the shellholder, backed off the shellholder one complete turn. Size a case and try it in your chamber, without a bullet or primer. If the bolt is tight or won't close, put the case back into the press and adjust your sizing die down a little about 1/8 turn, resize and try it again in your rifle. Keep turning your sizing die in towards your shellholder until cases just chamber easily in your rifle. The die may need firm contact with your shellholder but it appears to me that you're oversizing and pushing the shoulder back too much letting the primer back out the 10 thousandths you say it is backed out.
You didn't mention what bullet you're loading. Maximum overall length of a loaded 30-06 cartridge is about 3.340" which may or may not be too long for your rifle. Most 150-165 grain spire point bullets should have an overall loaded length about 3.210 up to 3.220" I wouldn't load longer than 3.220" depending on your bullet and loading to the length the manufacturer lists in the reloading manual.
It doesn't appear to be a pressure problem as your load is not up to a maximum load for Varget.
I'd just guess that you're not sizing cases to fit your rifles chamber correctly. Either not sizing the shoulder back enough or possibly oversizing. Your overall length may be too long. And for the 1903 rifle you really don't need to crimp at all.
More details may help someone be able to help with your problem.

[10-96]

Has your 03 been anywhere close to a set of Go-NoGo guages since it's been assembled from various other assortment of parts?

[Bamashooter]

Rg1...
You said you wouldnt exceed an overall length of 3.220''. I load my 155gr.SMK's according to my Sierra manual at 3.250'' I have shot many of these through my remington made 1903 without issue. Its actually an extremely accurate load. The ones I use are the Palma SMK's.

[rg1]

You're correct that the oal can be longer, up to 3.340". I load 150 fmj-fb military surplus and some other surplus bullets to 3.320" for a Garand. I was just looking at Hornady data and it recommends 3.210 up to 3.220" for most of their 30-06 bullets and up to 3.240" in the Garand section of their manual.

[RaySendero]

Bobrm2wrote:

Reloading problem 30.06

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I've a 100 or so cases of range brass, some cases are military. I've trimmed them back to .294 if memor serves. I'm using CCI #34 primers and started with 49 gr.'s of Varget.

Bob,

After years of putting my finger in the electrical socket - I've learned the hard way:

1) Don't mix different cases in the same reloading batch and
2) Don't use range brass.

I understand your trying to make the range brass work, but $35 for 100 new cases may solve some of the problems your into and will greatly simplify troubleshooting reloading issues in the future!

[Bobrm2]

Lots of great information. I'm printing it and heading for the shop, with the check off lists.

Have to answer no, to the go-no-go question.

I'm headed to the shop, to re-hash how I size the cases.

"I'd just guess that you're not sizing cases to fit your rifles chamber correctly. Either not sizing the shoulder back enough or possibly oversizing. Your overall length may be too long. And for the 1903 rifle you really don't need to crimp at all.
More details may help someone be able to help with your problem."
rg1 is off line Report Post


Also, will take RaySendero's advice and buy new cases.

Another trip and more info, from the shop.

Bullets are Hornady #3031 150 gr SP.

Wilson case guage shows day lite betweenn case head and lower step, with straigh edge running parallel to lower step. The case shoulder is set back too deeply, .005 - ???

I'm going to correct this error, and mark down to lack of experience.

What do I actually need to make sure I am checking my cases correctly. The 30.06 was the first "range" cases I've used. But, with this happening I wonder about procedures, assuming all are the same for .308's and .243's. Maybe that another subject.

[44 AMP]

I'm loading for a Springfield 1903, that I've reassembled from several different guns. Unsure of actual head space.

Why on earth are you shooting a gun when you are unsure of the headspace?

Especially with an old 1903 Springfield Action? Improper headspace can turn a safe load into a DISASTER!

If the rifle headspace is out of spec, and cannot be fixed, there are ways you can make safe, shootable ammo for it, BUT it is not something to be done on a try this, try that and see what happens bases, and not to be done with leftover components.

The way you described what you are doing is asking for trouble. You may not get it, but you are asking for it!

[603Country]

You could buy some of those Nosler cases that are ready to load as-is. And measure them before you load them, so you'll have that info available when it comes time to go through the reloading process.

[Clifford L. Hughes]

Bobrm2:

Most Reloaders equate protruding primers, and rightly so, as an indication of high pressure: this isn't entirely true. To solve your problem you must first have your rifle's headspace checked. Next you must full length size brass that hasn't been fired in your rifle and trim to proper specs. Once these measurements are verified you must check your powder type and youdr powder charge. From the looks of the primer in your photos high pressure is not indicated. If the primer protrudes form high pressure it would be flattened.

Here's why your loads might on the low side. When the primer fires it pushes the case forward against the rifle's chamber's shoulder. The cartridge's primer remains stationary. When the powder ignites it drives the cartridge case back against the bolt face reseating the primer. If the powder charge is to light the
case dosen't move back to reseat the primer so it protruds.

Sempeer Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired

[Slamfire]

Why on earth are you shooting a gun when you are unsure of the headspace?

EEK!!!

Especially with an old 1903 Springfield Action? Improper headspace can turn a safe load into a DISASTER

EEK EEK!!!

Find someone with headspace gages and have that rifle checked. Excessive headspace can lead to action peening and case head separations. It would be very bad if you have a gas release through the action considering these old Springfields have almost no shooter protection features.

In the attached thread just see the action damage that occurred in a single heat treat Springfield due to a blown case head.

Someone went to the hospital.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...er+springfield

[10-96]

44 AMP,
Thanks for steering in that direction, the OP's rifle needs to be looked at much much closer at this point than what's going on at the reloading bench. That's why I asked about the guages.

[Bamashooter]

My uncle gave me hundreds of 30-06 brass years ago. Thats all I have ever used in my Springfield. I did pick through and get the best ones and usually try to load the same headstamp in batches. Worked well for me so far.

[jimbob86]

Find someone with headspace gages and have that rifle checked.

This.

[Doodlebugger45]

OP,

Check that trim length again. You said 2.275", saying that they were 0.009" short. Actually, the trim length is 2.484". If your measurement is correct, they would be 0.209" short, which is way way off.