Help with .45 Colt

[Georgian]

Hey yall. I just recently began reloading for the good ole .45 Colt as I also recently acquired an Uberti Cattleman II as well as a Uberti 1875 Remington both with 7 1/2" barrels, both in .45 Colt. So far, I decided to settle on either 225/250gr RNFP coated bullets. I have reloaded and shot approximately 200 rounds so far using Unique. My first loads were on the light end, 7.3gr Unique and they proved accurate and mild in recoil. I then went up to 8gr Unique, and both bullet weights were again accurate with a small increase in recoil, still pleasurable. I have contemplated pushing slightly further and maxing out at 8.9gr Unique, but I have read in some loading manuals 8.5gr is the max and may be tough on the gun. I have also came upon numerous loads using 9gr Unique. I have not yet been able to chrono any of my loads. When I acquired the aforementioned handguns, I also purchased some Freedom Munitions new manufactured 255gr jacketed FP ammo, rated at 850fps. This ammunition definitely feels quite a bit hotter than both of my handloads. Should I quit while I'm ahead or would 8.9gr of Unique actually be relatively safe to try?

[USSR]

Loads for the 45 Colt are entirely dependent on the gun being used. Typically, there are 3 tiers of load data. Tier 1 is for revolvers such as yours. Tier 2 is for revolvers like the S&W N Frames and the Ruger New Vaquero. And finally, Tier 3 is for the large frame Rugers and others. 9.0gr of Unique puts you up to near 20k psi, so you are better off staying not much more than 8.0 grains. Hope that helps.

Don

[Unclenick]

Georgian,

Your max load listing for Unique is on the light side. That happens in some load data for various reasons. Alliant says 9.5 grains is maximum for both 200 and 250-grain LSWC's. The reason the lighter bullet charge doesn't go higher is they use a shorter COL with it, so it is seated a little deeper, which raises pressure. Lyman has a 200-grain SWC maximum load of 10 grains and puts the measured pressure at 12,900 CUP, which should be safe. Your RNFP shapes probably seat less deeply (but may not, if the lube grooves are large) and therefore probably have still higher charge limits, but I won't recommend going there without at least some chronograph data, and that will have to be adjusted for barrel length to compare to the other load sources.

[44 AMP]

FWIW

1970 Lyman manual, .45 Colt 255gr bullet (#454424, #2 alloy)
The starting load is 8.0gr Unique. Listed velocity is 849fps.

Test gun was Colt SAA 5.5" barrel.

Max listed load is 10.0gr and velocity is 1003fps

I have even older books, one from the 50s, and they are the same, MAX load in COLT SAA with a 250gr is 10gr Unique. This is well ABOVE factory load level. IT was safe then, it should be safe now.

Work up carefully, and if you have any pressure signs before you get there, stop. There's no reason to go up to 10gr if you don't want, or need to.

Your guns are modern reproductions, and should be able to take the pressure the original guns did. (Not talking about the pre 1900 "black powder frame" Colts those are special cases)

8gr with a 250 is a classic load and should approximately match standard factory ammo. The guns will take a bit more but one needs to work up carefully. They aren't made of tissue paper but they aren't Ruger Blackhawks, either.

I shoot new model Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt and T/C Contender, and 10gr Unique is my standard load. Clocks 1070fps from my 7.5" Ruger.

Its listed max for the Colt SAA and any gun patterned on the Colt should be as strong, BUT, every gun is an individual, so work up your loads if you go above 8gr with a 250gr slug.
Good Luck and enjoy!

[Georgian]

Thanks for the input 44 Amp. Both the reloading manual I have and the 48th Edition Lyman Reloading Handbook list that same bullet today with a max charge of 9gr Unique, velocity 875fps out of a 7 1/2" Blackhawk. When, why and how did the max loading data get altered from 10gr? Was the chemical makeup or properties of Unique changed at some point? Thats my only problem with reloading.....two sources rarely agree and its left up to the end user to sift through, interpret, and guesstimate what to do. I have also found load data from John Taffin advertising a safe load in Colt SAA and like replicas of 9gr Unique behind a 255gr SWC at 964fps.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Georgian

I have reloaded and shot approximately 200 rounds so far using Unique. My first loads were on the light end, 7.3gr Unique and they proved accurate and mild in recoil. I then went up to 8gr Unique, and both bullet weights were again accurate with a small increase in recoil, still pleasurable. I have contemplated pushing slightly further and maxing out at 8.9gr Unique,

WHY?

If you have a load (actually, two loads) that is (are) accurate and comfortable to shoot, why go higher? What are you hoping to accomplish? Your post suggests this is a fun gun, not a self defense firearm, so what would some additional velocity give you that's worth more recoil and more stress on the firearm?

[USSR]

When, why and how did the max loading data get altered from 10gr? Was the chemical makeup or properties of Unique changed at some point?

Two things here: a.) switch from using a copper crusher to determine pressure (CUP) to a piezoelectric transducer (PSI), and b.) Lawyers.

Thats my only problem with reloading.....two sources rarely agree and its left up to the end user to sift through, interpret, and guesstimate what to do.

Yep. And you don't even want to look at the Speer #8 Reloading Manual.

Don

[rclark]

My opinion is stick with 7.0 to 8.5g Unique under 250g RNFP in that gun. Or even load some Black Powder loads . If you want to 'push .45 Colt, go to a Ruger .45 or Freedom Arms. Enjoy you gun for what it is... Remember the .45 Colt BP revolvers were doing there job well in the latter half of the 1800s... So why would that you need more now? My current smokeless load for .45 Colt is 7.0g of Green Dot under the 250g RNFP which is a nice Tier 1 load.

[44 AMP]

Lets be clear and realize that like many things, there is a difference between what one can do, and what one should do. And lets also realize that reloading data are GUIDELINES and not hard and fast rules that always apply equally to everything.

The history of the .45 Colt round is rich, and begins in 1873, with the Colt SAA. And black powder and balloon head cases.

And even though improvements were made to the ammo, for nearly 100 years the standard gun was the same Colt. A bit improved when they changed from the "black powder frame" guns, but still "THE" .45 Colt.

After Ruger introduced their new model Blackhawk in .45 Colt, on their large frame, people began experimenting with loads heavier than the Colt gun could handle, literally rivaling .44 magnum power levels.

And speaking of which, the Colt SAA in .45 Colt is the reason we have a .44 Magnum, today. Elmer Keith blew up (at least) 3 Colt SAA .45s seeking the power he was after. Existing guns simply weren't up to what he wanted to do, and so he switched from the .45 cal guns to .44s because the extra metal in the cylinder allowed him to get where he wanted to go without the gun failing. I often wonder that IF Elmer had been able to use a Ruger Blackhawk, we'd have a .45 Magnum, and not a .44 Magnum. But that gun didn't exist then, so we have the .44 Magnum, and now "Ruger only" (or Tier 3) level .45 colt loads as well as the original level loadings.

I dearly love the .45 Colt round, and I've had my days of running it at or even exceeding .44 Mag in my Ruger, and about 30 years ago settled on a 250gr bullet and 10gr Unique as my standard load. Its powerful and not unpleasant to shoot, and while a max load in a Colt SAA or a clone, its not a dangerous overload should some of my ammo get into one of them by accident. (I don't currently own any Colt SAAs, but that's just my preference) Had a NEW VAQUERO, which is Colt size and in that gun I didn't run 10gr only 8 and it was just fine, too.

I've got some 4 5/8" and 5.5" Vaqueros, too and out of them, 10gr is noticeably less pleasant than it is out of my 7.5" Blackhawk. 8gr is very fine, though the guns will take significantly more, its less fun, and I shoot them for fun.

If you've got a load that is good in YOUR gun, and fun to shoot as well as being plenty powerful, go for it, and don't let anyone tell you that you need more. The speedometer may go to 120 but unless you're racing, 65-70 get you there plenty fast, with a lot less stress.

Everybody's data is a little different, because the guns and components they used are a little different. Your combination of gun and components may fall in the middle of the bell curve like most others, but it is always possible you could be at either end, so reloading data is guidelines, NOT laws.

For example, if you get sticky extraction (or any other sign of excess pressure) at 9gr, DO NOT go to 10 just because some book or online data says that is max.

The point to make accurate ammo that does what YOU want. If you've got that, you don't need to go anywhere else, do you?

[Georgian]

Thanks Amp. I have no intention of going up to 10gr of Unique. I know Alliant's data shows a max of 9.5gr of Unique for a 250gr LSWC, but was curious about how and if that would also apply to my 250gr RNFP. I'm not intending or looking to hotrod anything or make a magnum out of something that isn't. I am simply carefully trying to experiment to see if a little hotter load will give me anything more than what I already have.

[rodfac]

Very good advice from USSR, Unclenick, rclark, and 44 AMP...Most anything you need to know regarding that storied round is there in their paragraphs. I'd add, tho it may be obvious from their posts, that seating depth is a major factor on load pressure.

In my case, loading Lyman's 454190 (a FPRN with no crimping groove), I have seated to Lyman's recommendation (1.600" COL) and used 8.0 gr. of Unique with good results. Sized 0.453" when cast from ACWW's and lubed with 50-50, it will consistently produce 2" gps at 25 yds from a good rest.

Equally good, is 7.3 gr. of Win 231 with the same bullet. This load chrono's at 854 fps from my N. Vaquero and has done 1-1/2" gps. at 25 yds on good days. It's become my standard for both guns. 854 fps with a 255 gr bullet is no laughing matter on anything you'd shoot with it. Too, it shoots to the sights for me with both guns.

My guns, currently, are a Ruger NV with a 4-5/8" bbl. and a 7-1/2" bbl'd, Colt SAA lll generation. And both have cylinder throats that measure 0.452+"...a good match up for bullet size and groove dia.

HTH's and be sure to check a good manual before working up to the above loads, if interested. Both, BTW, are below Lyman's max as listed in their 49th Reloading Manual. Rod

[Real Gun]

Unique can be unpleasant to shoot at its upper range, I presume because it burns too fast and spikes the pressure. Once above 9 grains, I would set the Unique aside and try something like AA#7 or #9. Accurate Powders lists minimum loads for those at around 1000 fps, while the range to maxs would be intended for heavier guns.

I have tried 45 Colt in the full range of guns and loads and do not think a New Vaquero is at all well suited to heavy loads, regardless of whether the gun would blow up or not. My Uberti, same thing...why abuse the gun or the shooter? The thing with a slower powder is that the felt recoil is lower, presumably because the pressure build up is more gradual. One doesn't necessarily need a more sturdy gun, but heavier weight improves the shooting experience with stout loads. Think Blackhawk 45 convertible or one of the longer barrel Redhawks that are no longer offered in 45 Colt. To go all in, consider 454 Casull guns shooting 45 Colt or the X-frame 460 S&W Magnum that accepts 45 Colt. That is way beyond the capability of a SAA clone or Vaquero.

Lyman lists 8.5 as max for 255 gr, while their separate section for T/C Contender/"Ruger only" lists 10.5, both with #2 alloy lead. Be sure not to confuse the two or overlook the distinction.

[Wendyj]

For the 245 grain I cast myself and lube I use Unique but prefer HS6 due to better accuracy. Just what worked for me.

[USSR]

Unique can be unpleasant to shoot at its upper range, I presume because it burns too fast and spikes the pressure. Once above 9 grains, I would set the Unique aside...

+1. I move on to slower burn rate powders as well. Although I must admit, most of my 45 Colt loads are quite mild and I use fast burn rate powders such as Bullseye, Red Dot, 700X, etc. They seem to perform better due to operating at a higher pressure level than a mild Unique load does. Just MHO.

Don

Don

[T. O'Heir]

"...either 225/250gr RNFP coated bullets..." Pick a weight and work up the load one weight at a time.
7.3 of Unique is nearly a full grain below current minimum for a cast 250. Minimum being 8.1. 250 is close enough to use that data for a Cast 255 too. Max, according to Alliant's site, is 9.5. Same for a cast 200 though.
Their "Cowboy Action" loads indicate a cast 230 Max is 8.5.

[Georgian]

My intentions are not to go to the published maximum, just to develop a series of different loads with the powder I'm currently using, which just happens to be Unique. In the long run I'll probably stick close to the 8gr 250gr load, as I know it works well. I also need to invest in or borrow a chronograph, as I'd really like to know how consistent the velocities are.

[Unclenick]

I note, from reviewing my Lyman books, that the 250-grain bullets don't have pressure measurements, so there is probably a fudge-factor there, while Alliant does measure pressure even if they don't report it. Lyman has measured loads for 230-grain bullets and 200-grain bullets.

For seating depth, the formula is:

Seating Depth = Case Length + Bullet Length - COL

Finding the COL for a different bullet once you know what seating depth you want to hit is just a matter of rearranging that same formula to:

COL = Case Length + Bullet Length - Seating Depth

When you are talking about someone else's COL for a bullet you have, just use the SAAMI maximum case length or the same trim-to length for both calculations.

[Pathfinder45]

Unique is an excellent powder for 45 Colt. For those guns, I would stick with lead bullets of 250-255 grains, preferably cast. I would use both 8.0 grains and 8.5 grains until one proved the most accurate and then settle on that. If they are equal, I would lean to the 8.5 grain load. While individual guns will vary, I don't believe there is a more accurate powder for this cartridge, generally. Of course, there are exceptions, on the occasion....
In my original Vaquero, I run it at 9.5 grains. If I want more velocity than this will deliver, I would be switching to a different powder. I don't think you should load to this level in your guns, even though I have no doubt they could take it, at least for a while. It's just that when you are running anything near the limits of its endurance, you are shortening its useful and safe lifetime of service.
I have used Unique in this application at loads varying from 6.0 to 10.0 grains with good accuracy at all levels. Lots of good advice has been given by so many here; I think you are on the right track.