The "Militia' in Lithuania

[Glenn E. Meyer]

http://www.politico.eu/article/lithu...-soviet-union/

An interesting view of a country where a civilian supplement to the armed forces may be needed to face real peril. Fun notes - Glock 17s, freeing up purchases of semiauto rifles, using your Glock to fight to your rifle.

Part of the mix is the fear than such groups might be right wing evil doers.

Parallels to the USA?

[Aguila Blanca]

That was fast.

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[Technosavant]

Try this link. Seems to work:

http://www.politico.eu/article/lithu...-soviet-union/

I thought this to be interesting:

Since 2014, the Lithuanian Ministry of Defense has issued a yearly manual of what to do in case of invasion. This year’s edition, with a print run of 30,000 distributed to schools and libraries around the country, unambiguously identifies what it believes to be the primary threat to Lithuania’s national security. “Most attention should be paid towards the actions of our neighboring state Russia,” the manual states. “This nation does not shy away from using armed power against its neighbors. At this time, in principle, it continues military aggression against Ukraine.”

Beyond advising citizens on how to resist an occupying power — pointers include identifying collaborators and handing them over to resistance groups — the manual encourages civilian readiness by completing basic military training or joining the Riflemen’s Union.

The government is clearly serious about this if they go to this extent. Also interesting that Lithuania's government is changing firearms laws to allow purchase of semiautomatic rifles by the citizenry. It's very much the modern version of a nation deliberately trying on the model of the "rifle behind every blade of grass."* One might even consider this a strategic use of asymmetric warfare- you don't need to be able to defeat your foe, just be evidently capable of being more trouble than you're worth to swallow up.


*Yes, I know that "quote" is apocryphal, but even fairly recent history shows how determined people with small arms can be quite the thorn in the side of even a superpower.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

That happens if you copy a link from another source and not the actual URL bar. If it is abbreviated, it doesn't copy.

Sorry about that.

[TXAZ]

Would love to hear Pond, James Pond's feedback as he's familiar with the area and issues.

[Aguila Blanca]

In fact, the article mentions Estonia, and I believe that's where Mr. Pond is located.

[Pond, James Pond]

Yep, I saw this thread and clicked immediately!!

I've not read the article yet as I have an early start tomorrow, but I'm familiar with the manual mentioned from news reports. Lithuania is also actively conscripting.

The issue with Lithuania is two-fold, if I think off the top of my head. First is their geography. They are sandwiched between Belarus, a Kremlin sympathiser (puppet state?) and Kaliningrad which is bristling with military hardwear (think Gibraltar during WWII). The second issue is that, unlike the other two Baltic States, Lithuania gave all those living there citizenship regardless of ethnicity when it gained independence.

It's worth remembering that many Russians, who had been "imported" into the new Soviet republics, and their children stayed after independence. Neither Latvia nor Estonia did this. Citizenship went to ethnic Estonians or those who could prove that their families had lived in the Rep' of Estonia that was created in 1919.

So for Estonia and Latvia it means meddling by Russia which claims discrimination of it's people (although it has not rushed to offer them its own citizenship), but for Lithuania it means the Russian population has democratic voting rights and not all of them, I can say from my Estonian experience, have the interests of "their" country at heart. So in all these countries there is essential a real or potential Fifth Column but Lithuania's has the vote!!

On a broader scale there comes the EU. With the Paris attacks last year, some self-serving career politicians have decided to try and change the Firearms Directive across Europe even though none of the guns used came under the Directive because they were all acquired or altered illegally. Anyway, that proposal hopes to make semi-autos illegal for the private citizen (you can search fro my thread on rifle choice in Europe for more details). If it goes through in the form many of the ill-informed do-gooders would like, then this militia may be opting for lever actions and revolvers because the ban is not just aimed at rifles...


Whilst I'd like to see the just decision made and it binned, I'm banking on a it being a case of keep what you've got but you can't sell it or pass it on and perhaps a mag capacity limit, but it could well be an outright ban, even though all the evidence and reasoning for any of the above has been debunked comprehensively by experts and rejected by member state police heads, defence and interior ministers again and again.
And they wonder why the public have lost faith in the European project....

Anyway, if it goes to an outright ban, those rifle owners may find they need to use their wheel-guns to fight their way to that Marlin or Remington 700.

Over here in Estonia they have the Defence League: it is like the National Guard on your end or Territorial Army in the UK. Members of the public sign up, do exercises, get training and even weapons (Galils and M14 semis). Whilst Estonia's army is about 6,000 strong, the Defence League is about 30,000! That is a lot of rifles hunkered down in the forest waiting for .... whoever were to come uninvited!!

So, yes, it's all a big mess and I am still trying to decide if recent changes at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave will alter things in this respect, make them worse or perhaps better. Either way, I now know what it is like to live in a country that feels insecure: it is not a nice feeling and so the Lithuanians have my sympathies and best wishes.

[johnwilliamson062]

Whilst Estonia's army is about 6,000 strong, the Defence League is about 30,000!

And how many 'special forces' service people does Russia have?
I fear the period between the election and Trump taking office will be remembered as the point in time where the US lost it's military dominance.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Trump is not the topic of this thread. Dump that digression.

[g.willikers]

the Russian population has democratic voting rights and not all of them, I can say from my Estonian experience, have the interests of "their" country at heart.

Not much different that the way many folks think in plenty of places in the US.
About transplants from other places in the US.
If anyone should be aware of the risks, it would have to be the people in Lithuania.
They have been endlessly invaded from both directions for much of their history.
The Finish experiences with Russia has probably been a large influence, too.
My grandparents, both sides, came from Lithuania and Russia over a hundred years ago.
Thankfully.
They were fond of saying those places were very good places to be from.
A long way from.

[Skans]

It seems that Lithuania is a little behind the 8-ball in arming their citizens. Sudden access to handguns and possibly semi-automatic rifles isn't quite the same as having 10 - 20 years of shooting them under your belt. At least it's a start. We (Americans) are very lucky, aren't we!

[Pond, James Pond]

They were fond of saying those places were very good places to be from.

Well, I can safely say that where I live is a very good place to be even though I'm not from it!!

It seems that Lithuania is a little behind the 8-ball in arming their citizens. Sudden access to handguns and possibly semi-automatic rifles isn't quite the same as having 10 - 20 years of shooting them under your belt.

To be fair, 25 years ago they were a "Soviet Republic" (read occupied sovereign state!). The first 10 years were like the Wild West: utter pandemonium where anything went .
Since joining the EU things will have calmed down and that is probably when firearms were a legal option under the EU firearms directive: they certainly weren't allowed during the occupation!

So yes, they are behind, but all these countries have had to hold onto their freedom with tooth and nail.

[HiBC]

I certainly support the individual liberty of being armed.
And I support the notion of "A rifle behind every blade of grass" a force of sovereignty.

Beyond that,we start projecting fears into the future.People in USA projected concealed carry permits would result in wild west bloodbaths in the streets.
It has not happened.Indeed,the streets are safer with more lawful concealed carry.

The Swiss are an example of a heavily armed society that runs pretty well.

Frankly,I am far to ignorant of Europe and the Balkans to make any comments about what may happen.I have heard predictions about the "right" and the "left" in terms of Europe.

There certainly seems to be stored energy within the context of Europe.The economy,immigration and refuges,Brexit and changing governments..Russia...Ethnic and religious considerations

I'll say "We live in interesting times"

I would prefer to live in a country that supported the armed citizen.

[Pond, James Pond]

Europe and the Balkans

I'll say this! The Balkans are waaaaay warmer!!

[HiBC]

OK,my faux pas! I should have said "including"

But you knew that!

[Pond, James Pond]

But you knew that!

T'was too good a chance to miss!

There certainly seems to be stored energy within the context of Europe.

There always have been and the E.U. was designed to dissipate it. Something it has done well. That is why, personally, I fear its demise. It's not often we humans learn to live together despite differences.

As you point out this new confluence of stressors are bad enough, but the worst is they largely play into Russia's hands. Some people just like to trash what others have built...