M1903A4 Sniper Scope

[Keith Rogan]

I'm looking at the August 1999 issue of the American Rifleman and on page 22 they discuss the M1903A4 Sniper Rifle.
Early rifles were equipped with the Weaver 330C scope.
Almost as an after-thought, he speaks of a "very scarce later variant" with atapered post instead of reticules that has the military designation "M8".
Unfortunately, he doesn't say what the company designation for that scope was or how the scope was marked.
I own a Weaver scope that appears identical to the 330C except that it has a tapered post reticule and is marked "Model 440 Pats Pending W. R. Weaver CO El Paso, TX. USA

Could this be an original M8 scope? Any leads would be appreciated because if this is indeed an M8 its extremely valuable - as scarce as M1903A4's are, the scopes are even scarcer.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

[Harley Nolden]

Keith:
My records indicate that the Weaver M8 is a varient of the Weaver, mfg'd by Weaver, 330, which was produced during WWII. My records also indicate that the A4 & M8 Scope were also used during the Korean Conflict.

From my experience, the Springfield A4 was also used in Viet Nam by some US forces. (it was a matter of the simplicity of the bedding process)

HJN

[This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited August 21, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited August 21, 1999).]

[Keith Rogan]

Harley,

This Weaver 440 is in every way identical to the 330 except for the tapered post reticle - basicaly, it IS a variant of the 330.

Any idea where I can find out what the markings on the M8 scope would be, whether it was known as the 440?

Keith

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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

[Harley Nolden]

Keith:
According to my records it was stamped M8

HJN

[Keith Rogan]

Oh well, bad luck then. This scope must be the civilian version of the M8.

Thanks for your help, as always!



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

[Harley Nolden]

Keith:
Taken from "The Complete Book of Sniping," by Peter R. Senich:

Telescopic sights having the tapered-post reticle were designated:
Telecope M82
Serial #XXXXX
Stock #84374

HJN

[4V50 Gary]

Harley,

The M82 is the Wollensak version of the Lyman made M81 (the military version of the Alaskan with a sliding lens shade). When Lyman couldn't keep up with demands, blueprints for the M81 were given to Wollensak which then took up production. The difference between the M81 and the M82 being in that the M81 had crosshairs and the M82 had the tapered post.

Gary

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

[Keith Rogan]

Now I'm really confused. The American Rifleman only discussed the Weaver version - if the M81 and M82 are Lyman and Wollensak....?



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

[4V50 Gary]

Keith,

Sorry about the confusion. If yours looks like a Weaver 330, it won't look like the Lyman Alaskan (or M81/M82). The Alaskan M81/M82 has a blocky rectangular base for both windage and elevation adjustments - a feature which is missing from the Weaver 330. Furthermore, said blocky rectangular base is about 2" from the objective lens. The adjustments on your Weaver are near the eye piece. A good book with photographs of the Alaskan is the Lyman Centennial book.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

[Keith Rogan]

This scope is marked "Weaver 440", etc, etc, as above in the earlier note.

It is identical in all respects (except for the tapered post reticle) to the Weaver 330C or M73B1 Sniper scope. This tapered post model sounds like the "very scarce variant" that the American Rifleman speaks of.

Is there a sniper rifle collectors society or any other source that you know of where I could verify the markings? Being "designated" something doesn't mean it was "marked" as such and I'd like to double-check with someone before giving up on this - perhaps commercial models were purchased to fill the demand and are unmarked.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

[4V50 Gary]

Shoulda kept my mouth shut and you'd be a happier camper. Available stocks of civilian scopes were pressed into service prior to the militarized versions being introduced. The demand was that great and Lyman did the same with their Alaskan.

Sorry I can't provide any more information the your scope. Suggest you write Peter Senich via Palladin Press. He's an acknowledged expert in this area and can probably help you.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

[Keith Rogan]

Harley and Gary,

I made a contact who had some specifics on the scope in question. I thought I'd pass it along for general information.

The gentleman in question is a gunsmith and former dealer in Massachussetts. Some years ago, I think he said in the 1960's, he bought several hundred MilSurp Weaver scopes for a dollar apiece at a government auction.

Most of the scopes were badly beaten up and he had to mix and match lenses and reticles to make up some scopes for sale. Anyway, the lot included Weaver 330C's and 440's (like mine).
The 330C is about 2.75 power, the 440 is 3.5 power and has the tapered post reticle. Only a few of these scopes were marked, and those with an engraving pen "B73". He doesn't know if that was an acceptance mark or just some local division armorer or what.

So, Sniper Scopes from that era had no special markings from the factory to differentiate them from civilian models. Both the 330 and 440 were used. Hope this helps.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan