HP38 and Winchester 231

[Gunnels]

Quick question. In reviewing the various reloading post I had a quick and probably dumb question. I have also seen where some people say Winchester 231 is equivalent to HP38. Does that mean they are interchangeable when reloading.

Also, in some reloading tables I have seen they reference a Winchester HP38. On the Winchester website I don't see a Winchester HP38 powder. Are they referring to the Hodgdon HP38 powder?

[Misssissippi Dave]

Only the name changes. All three refer to the same powder.

[jepp2]

Hodgdon HP-38 and Winchester 231 are exactly the same powder. If you go to the Hodgdon cartridge load website link, and look up loads with these powders listed you will find them next to each other with exactly the same numbers.

There are several other powders that are also exactly the same, in some cases one of the powders is no longer available.

There is no Winchester HP-38 that I am aware of.

[wpsdlrg]

Same powder, manufactured by Hodgden. Marketed as both HP38 (Hodgden) and W231 (Winchester).

So, yes, current lots of both are interchangeable. If you find any separate load data listings, which are not identical (I see this on occasion), these are based on different lots....and different "vintages".

[Misssissippi Dave]

My understanding is Hodgdon makes the powder and it is sold by Winchester. So HP-38 and Winchester W231 are one in the same. I don't recall which company developed the powder in the first place. I believe it was originally designed to work with .38 loads. That is where Hodgdon got the name for their brand. It also works well in several other calibers. H110 and 296 are also the same powder.

[Miata Mike]

I loaded a bunch of .38 special this last few weeks and used up my HP-38. Loads were very consistent at 3.5 grains. W231 dropped at a very consistent 3.6 grains. Lot variation no doubt, but very much the same powder.

[snuffy]

My understanding is Hodgdon makes the powder and it is sold by Winchester. So HP-38 and Winchester W231 are one in the same. I don't recall which company developed the powder in the first place. I believe it was originally designed to work with .38 loads.

Exactly opposite. Winchester, who owned Olin, developed W-231, but sold it in bulk to Hodgdon who packaged it as HP-38. Hodgdon does not make ANY powder. It simply distributes powder, made by other companies. Now they own the distribution rights of former Olin plant called St. Marks. They also own the distribution rights to the former Dupont IMR powder company, and distribute those powders as well.

Here's a list of those powders that have always been the same;

W-296 = H-110
W-231 = HP-38
W-540 = HS-6
W-571 = HS-7

There's others, I can't remember, somebody will be along to fill in the gaps. (thanks Jim!)

[dickttx]

The only difference is that HP38 is $1 per pound cheaper than W231, no matter what size (1#, 4#, 8#).

[jag2]

You will see different loads for the same bullet with those 2 powders but remember that each company set up there own parameters (barrel length, etc. ) when they were testing so don't let that concern you.

[WESHOOT2]

There is a rumor that old W296 was actually W295.......

[black mamba]

Yeah, back in the '70s H110 was usually considered a tick slower than W296, and my old manuals support this. Could have just been different lots, who knows . . . .

[Swampman1]

Here's a list of those powders that have always been the same;

W-296 = H-110
W-231 = HP-38
W-540 = HS-6
W-571 = HS-7

Here I've been waiting for Win 231, and HP-38 is the same. This is good info to know, I would think important enough to be put in a sticky thread along with other duplicates.

[Slamfire]

Yeah, back in the '70s H110 was usually considered a tick slower than W296, and my old manuals support this. Could have just been different lots, who knows

More due to lot to lot variation. The powder we get is mixed with fast and slow lots. The powder manufacturing process cannot make powder precisely.

But for decades, this lot to lot variation was enough that sellers and gunwriters were able to convince the shooting public that there was a difference between brands.

[Jim Watson]

Hodgdon does not make smokeless powder.
Hodgdon does not own the Ball Powder plant at St Marks, Fla. That is currently a General Dynamics operation, Winchester/Olin has been out of the powder business for some time. The plant was at one time known as Primex but I do not know if that was an Olin or Gendye trademark or if the plant operated as an independent for a while.

Hodgdon does not own the IMR powder plant in Canada, either. That is also a General Dynamics property, DuPont having been out of the powder business for many years.

Hodgdon does not own the ADI powder plant in Australia, for that matter. Thales, a French conglomerate does.

[snuffy]

Hodgdon does not make smokeless powder.
Hodgdon does not own the Ball Powder plant at St Marks, Fla. That is currently a General Dynamics operation, Winchester/Olin has been out of the powder business for some time. The plant was at one time known as Primex but I do not know if that was an Olin or Gendye trademark or if the plant operated as an independent for a while.

Hodgdon does not own the IMR powder plant in Canada, either. That is also a General Dynamics property, DuPont having been out of the powder business for many years.

Hodgdon does not own the ADI powder plant in Australia, for that matter. Thales, a French conglomerate does.

Thanks Jim for that clarification. I know those facts, but my lousy memory leaves out about half.

Hodgdon started his company distributing surplus war powder, mainly 4831 powder used for 30-06. He bought train car loads of it, the returning GI's needed powder for their rifles they brought home.

He expanded his powder lines by buying powder from Olin, then the st. marks powder plant. He packaged it, re-naming it and selling it a bit below what the same stuff cost from Winchester.

Now he has bought the distribution rights to both IMR and the Winchester lines. Some of the powder has been discontinued, you can't find W-571 anymore, but the HS-7 should still be around. Same for W-540, gone but HS-6 is still with us. H-870 is gone as well, that was re-packaged military powder.

[WESHOOT2]

I have numerous lots of W296, and some H110.

My lots are in no way similar; different physical shape and size, different color, different measured performance.

[wpsdlrg]

" Winchester, who owned Olin, developed W-231, but sold it in bulk to Hodgdon who packaged it as HP-38. Hodgdon does not make ANY powder. It simply distributes powder, made by other companies."


Thanks for the correction. You are so right. I had forgotten that Hodgdon only distributes powder.

However, I have one small correction, as well. Winchester did not own Olin Corp.....Olin Corp. owned Winchester (Olin absorbed Winchester). There has been NO "Winchester" company for a very long time. Not since 1935, anyway. Anything labeled "Winchester" that is bought today, such as powder, primers, guns, etc.... is made by whatever concern happens to own the rights to the Winchester name currently (the marketing rights have changed hands several times), or whatever out source manufacturer they happen to use. The Winchester name is only for marketing purposes.

P.S. - FN Herstal (FNH) and Browning currently share the rights to use the Winchester name for GUNS....thus, they are the current producers of "Winchester" guns. The Olin Corp. stills owns the rights for all Winchester ammo and reloading components (and presumably produces those, such as HP38 and Win. 231). The "Winchester Repeating Arms" company, as it currently exists.....is only a marketing "shell" corp. - the guns are produced by FNH, Browning and as I understand, certain models by some out-source concern. FNH produces the "Model 70" rifle.