|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
March 25, 2013, 09:55 AM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: March 16, 2013
Posts: 25
|
Just getting into rifles - which one?
Avid hand gun shooter here, thinking I need a rifle, since my gun club has a 500 yard rifle range, and well I may start hunting with some buddies just for fun.
..But what one? I've heard good things about the springfield M1A, I like that is magazine fed, but maybe that nato round it shoots isn't so good long range, say for hunting? Also read some about the legendary 30-06 that the M1 GARAND shoots, but that gun seems like a very old design, and do they even make them anymore? Also what do you guys think of this one (Sauer S202 Varmint)? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=333485596 *** edit M1 GARAND Last edited by deckard; March 25, 2013 at 04:06 PM. |
March 25, 2013, 10:45 AM | #2 |
Junior member
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 6,846
|
In answer to the question of .308 hunting capability, I'd qualify it as a deer rifle out to 400 yards and acceptable for bigger game to 250-300. All depending on choice of ammo and ability to hit the right place.
The Garand is a battle rifle not conducive to use with a scope. It's heavy and of course all but a very few are 50-70 years old. IMHO there are many choices better than the M1A for hunting or casual shooting. A good bolt action in .308 would be a good place to start. Since you didn't really state your priorities, this is all just guesswork and assumption. |
March 25, 2013, 10:55 AM | #3 |
Staff
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,819
|
Yes, priorities would be helpful, as would knowing what type of game you want to hunt.
As for "do they make them any more?" Well, I'm not an expert on the M1 variants, but there are some interesting goodies still in production. Here's an example: http://www.springfield-armory.com/ar...icktype=rifles There's also the Civilian Marksmanship Program, but my knowledge of that is limited enough that I'll let others fill you in on that.
__________________
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some. |
March 25, 2013, 11:53 AM | #4 |
Member
Join Date: March 16, 2013
Posts: 25
|
Priorities would be light hunting at best, mostly be something I could show off at the range and shoot exceptionally well up to 1000 yards. Say price was not really something I would be concerned about; e.g if paying a bit more money to get something that could handle bigger game, I'd go for it.
|
March 25, 2013, 12:05 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 6, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 136
|
If money really doesn't matter the options are almost limitless, as far as the .308 win it is more than capable of killing a deer (or elk for that matter) at any distance you are capable of shooting accurately. The rifle choice really should come down to personal preference, if you have friends that have rifles ask to shoot and handle them to get a feel for what you like.
|
March 25, 2013, 12:21 PM | #6 |
Member
Join Date: March 16, 2013
Posts: 25
|
Ok well the .308 then is the cartridge ill start filtering searches by.
Thanks guys |
March 25, 2013, 01:23 PM | #7 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 31, 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 2,614
|
Quote:
Quote:
The Model 70 has long been a favorite among hunters. FN makes the current M70, which has been getting terrific reviews. The SPR action differs in part from the current M70 actions in that it utilizes the classic pre-64-style M70 trigger, rather than the current M70's MOA trigger. The MOA trigger has it's fans, but many feel the pre-64 trigger epitomized what a good reliable trigger ought to be on a hunting rifle. In addition to the trigger, the SPR, like the M70, utilizes both a Controlled Round Feed action with a claw extractor, and a 3-position safety. At 11.6lbs, it's hefty by hunting rifle standards, but if you won't be carrying it a lot, it's got everything it needs to do double duty as a hunting & target rig. Don't forget some good optics, whatever you decide to get. http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/com...series/spr-a1/ |
||
March 25, 2013, 02:31 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
|
ok there there are a few things I would like to point out.
1. what is your definition of light hunting? if you plan of killing deer and varmints then the 308 is more than sufficient. 2. it's M1 GARAND, named after the man that invented it. 3. the M1A is based on the M14 which was essentially a M1 garand, converted to 7.62x51mm and given a detachable magazine. 4. 1000 yards is an incredible challenge even for seasoned shooters. contrary to popular belief a bullet travels in an arc and depending on the range you zero at your bullet can drop up to 15 feet depending on caliber. also to put things in perspective, a 1 inch group at 100 yards increases to a 10 inch group at 1000(under perfect conditions, IE no wind, no change in weather conditions, no flies landing on your forehead while shooting etc) so you are combining the necessary skills of shooting less than an inch groups at 100 yards and judging holdover based on unknown distance. those abilities are just not in the cards for a first time rifle owner, it takes years to do that, 500 yards is a much better goal to set for yourself. 5. 3006 and 308 have identical ballistics characteristics with 308 just starting with a little lower velocity.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin Last edited by tahunua001; March 26, 2013 at 10:54 AM. |
March 25, 2013, 03:29 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 6,872
|
+1 tahunua001 and it is by no means a knock on you or your ability's deckard.
If your talking about putting down $2500 to $3000 on a first rifle I would suggest maybe slowing down and shooting some other rifles before you jump in head first . You can get a pretty nice set up for 1k no problem . Remington 700 , winchester model 70 and lets not forget about Savage . All the before mentioned are bolt action rifles and that is what I suggest if your really wanting to shoot 1000yds . There are many factors that come in to play when choosing a rifle . If for hunting , what type ? Will you be caring the rifle all day hiking over all kinds of terrain or just sitting in a blind waiting all day . If you plan to carry the rifle all day you most likely don't want to lug a 15lb rifle around . If your target shoot at long distances 15lbs some might say is a light rifle . I could go on-n-on about this kind of stuff . If it were me I would not spend that kind of money on my first rifle . Here is a review I did on my new Savage model 10 FCP-K . this set up (as is)right now cost about $1,300 . http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=517846 It is sweet and capible of shooting 1k no problem . I say "It is " cus I'm not yet but hope to soon
__________________
If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
March 25, 2013, 04:05 PM | #10 |
Member
Join Date: March 16, 2013
Posts: 25
|
Thanks for all the feedback!
|
March 25, 2013, 04:24 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2011
Location: TN
Posts: 118
|
Actually at 1,000 yards with a .308 you are going to drop around 30-32 ft depending on your load. The 1" inch at 100 yards will be considerably more than 10" at 1,000 because of a host of factors. My .308 shoots around .5-.6 MOA on average at 100-400 yards.
My son just shot an F/TR class match at 1,000 with it and while he had many 10's, 9's, 8's and 1X, many shots were in the 7's because he was chasing the wind. Which means the group for 20 rounds was probably more like 30-40". |
March 25, 2013, 06:09 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 26, 2013
Location: SE WI
Posts: 158
|
I would recommend a rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. It is an excellent hunting round. A 140 Grain Berger Match Hunting VLD shot at 2,700 fps (completely capable without max loading your cartridge) you get a whitetail round that maintains 1,000 ft/lbs out to 700 yards. For 1,000 yard paper shooting the 6.5 Creedmoor with the same load as above would still be traveling above the Mach 1.2 limit (below Mach 1.2 the bullets flight begins to destabilize) at that range.
Below are some articles for you, which I have linked in other threads (Article 3 is my favorite): Article 1 Article 2 Article 3 Article 4 |
March 25, 2013, 06:55 PM | #13 |
Staff in Memoriam
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
|
Whether bolt or semi-auto, the fit of the rifle to your body is a top priority. When you mount the rifle to your shoulder and have a firm cheek weld against the stock, do it with your eyes closed. When you open your eyes, you should be looking right through the sights or scope--without moving your head.
Check for proper length of pull by holding the pistol grip with your finger on the trigger, and the buttpad set into your bent arm. It should be near to touching your bicep. (Proper spacing will vary with the thickness of clothing, different in summer than winter to some extent.) You can lengthen or shorten the stock, but doing any bending to the side is not at all easy or cheap. In today's world, very few bolt-action rifles won't put five rounds into a group of less than 1.5 inches at 100 yards. Scopes of four-power or more make this quite easy for an experienced shooter. It commonly only takes minor tweaking with the forearm bedding or even just a change of brand of ammo to improve on that. 'Nuff for the moment... |
March 25, 2013, 07:39 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Posts: 351
|
get a ruger 10/22 or a marlin 795 and add a sling and tec-sights, sign up for an appleseed(info.org) class and after you make rifleman you can answer this question with a solid base of information and you will be trained up to use a rifle at 500+ yards
|
March 25, 2013, 07:57 PM | #15 |
Member
Join Date: March 16, 2013
Posts: 25
|
Learning a lot here!
|
March 25, 2013, 09:08 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 3,995
|
Get a nice heavy barrel (fast twist) bolt action 223 and start with that. No flinch issues to worry about. Accuracy will be great and you can shoot cheaply (in a normal ammo market). Shoot with that for a while and then you'll have more info and experience to help you make a decision on what you'd like next. Put a really good scope on it, and you can later swap the scope to the next rifle if you wish.
I'm just thinking you need a little more hands-on rifle shooting before you spend the big bucks on a rifle that may or may not be what you really want or need. Of course, I just remembered that you said you might want to hunt, and if that's the case, the caliber I suggested isn't really suited to that. So...same advice shown above, but go with 243. |
March 25, 2013, 09:53 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 20, 2013
Location: Benton, Arkansas
Posts: 120
|
308 +1
|
March 26, 2013, 12:40 AM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 6,126
|
Go to a gun store, get a nice looking used.22 that fits you, take some lessons and put a few thousand rounds down range.
Take a hunters safety course. Hunt some small game with the .22. Then start thinking about a centerfire. Any modern rifle in any of the standard hunting cartridges will do fine for deer. .243win up to .30-06spr will all kill bambi. The odds are that if you go back to the used gun rack and just pick the gun that fits best, it will be in an acceptable round. |
March 26, 2013, 11:13 AM | #19 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin |
||||
March 26, 2013, 11:52 AM | #20 |
Member
Join Date: March 16, 2013
Posts: 25
|
I think I've settled on the Ruger Gunsite Scout in 18 inch barrel:
http://www.ruger.com/mobile/products/6822.html It is an interesting rifle, something Jeff Cooper proposed (a man who I highly respect). Thanks for the overwhelming feedback and info. |
March 26, 2013, 01:44 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 6,872
|
The Gunsite scout is a great all around rifle . You will enjoy it . It how ever will only shoot about 800yds accurately because of the lower velocity do to the shorter barrel . Still a great rifle enjoy
__________________
If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
March 26, 2013, 05:29 PM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Posts: 351
|
Quote:
|
|
March 26, 2013, 06:51 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2005
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 3,336
|
The civilian M14 is an excellent rifle and the M1A ain't bad either.
Get one with a 22" barrel and learn how to shoot with iron sights.
__________________
The History and Development of the M14 EBR |
March 26, 2013, 07:32 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
|
the ruger gunsite is a great rifle. a M77 action with detachable magazines and lightweight barrels.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin |
March 26, 2013, 10:26 PM | #25 | ||
Member
Join Date: March 16, 2013
Posts: 25
|
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by deckard; March 26, 2013 at 10:47 PM. |
||
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|