Flashlight or laser accessory to handgun/rail

[leadcounsel]

Is this really a good idea? I don't think it is.... One of the rules is to never point your gun anywhere you don't intend to shoot. Sweeping a room with unknown people with a flashligt just doesn't seem wise. Also, doesn't this
"illumnate you" as a target?

What about a laser accessory? Any use or any good?

[zzirg]

A flashlight if used and is powerful enough can blind an intruder so they say,i personally dont like the idea of using a white light at all,like you mentioned it can give your position away,there may be more then one perp.The laser can be nice most lasers dont give your position away because you cant see the beam of light unless the beam go"s thru smoke or fog and also plays a role in intimadating the perp if he or she see"s a red dot flashing around on their chest area it will make them think about retreating.

[FirearmFan]

For home defense I use a H&K usp.40. Underneath I have mounted their UTL tactical light. If I have to clear the house and its dark it will temporarily blind an attacker and also helps identify a target, which a laser will not do. I also keep next to the gun a surefire flashlight. In lowlight situations if you want to light up a large area and not point your firearm at the target the extra light helps. You can aim it at the ceiling and bouce the light around the room etc.

The light underneath also helps as a rough aiming tool if you can't line the sights up for one reason or another. A laser is good but in low light situations you want to be able to identify your target before pulling the trigger.

[leadcounsel]

I do see alot of MIL and LEO with lights mounted. I have a small light mounted on my G35, and have a surefire handheld. I suppose I have the option of the gunlight if needed.

[IZinterrogator]

If you're single and anyone else in your home doesn't belong there, it is an exceptionally viable option.

[C Philip]

I would go with the weapon mounted light over the laser. I've seen some folks at the local range use lasers on their handguns, and their accuracy is terrible. I am sure it's just them for the most part, but relying too much on the laser will lead to bad habits in terms of proper aim, etc. I'de rather see my target nice and bright with a good surefire weapon light, and aim with the open sights the way I always practice, than have the laser. Just my opinion.

[rnovi]

Local indoor range that I frequent did a "Tactical Flashlight Nite". Ok, there wasn't much tactical about it, but it was a fascinating experience trying to shoot at IPSC torso targets at ranges from 10-30 feet through small "windows" (6x6 foot plywood walls with 15 inch windows cut through them at various heights) first and then later by shooting around the "walls" at same targets.

Mind you, there was NO light on the range except your flashlight. All the windows were blacked out and the only illumination was that of your flashlight.

I shoot a 625 in these events (mainly because I HATE chasing my brass).

Here are my observations:

(firearm used: Smith 625jm, Gold bead front sight, standard non-illuminated rear. Ammunition used: 4.0 gr. Bullseye, 230 gr. Lead RN)

1. 625 in right hand, flashlight held in left hand at right shoulder so the light beam flashes over the sights and forward past the gun. After two shots firearm smoke completely obliterated any sight picture and the smoke acted like a mirror. It was much like using high-beams in a dense fog - can't see squat. Reloads were slow as I had to drop the flashlight so it hung by it's string on my wrist while I ejected the spent moonclip and slapped a new one in literally by feel. The flashlight dangled downward, creating a spinning web of light as it spun around. Very distracting. Also very difficult to bring the flashlight back to a ready position.

Time to complete course: 97 seconds. 15 targets to hit. 24 rounds fired resulting in 14 hits on targets, one target completely missed, and 10 blatent misses. Also dropped one moonclip (didn't bother to search for it until after the round was complete and weapon was "safe").

Flashlight held against right shoulder as I did was a worthless disaster and I promptly changed to the "crossed wrists" method of holding the flashlight in my left hand, my left wrist acting as a support to the right hand holding the firearm.

2. "Crossed Wrist" method of holding a flashlight (I think this is how a lot of LEO's are trained to hold a flashlight. I'm not an LEO, so don't ask me!). The flashlight created a sillouhetted sight picture that was easy to aquire. No need for night sights (tritium, etc.) when holding the flashlight this way. Four shots created enough smoke to obliterate sight pictures - thankfully I hit the first four targets (double taps on two targets each) and moved to the next stage. Again, difficulty in reloads was apparant as I did not have any light shining directly on my weapon to guide the reloads and the spinning light beam as mentioned prior. Expended 12 rounds to knock down 3 poppers at a range of 15 feet. Smoke combined against a gray target (the poppers) made target aquisition darn near impossible. Billowing smoke plumes began to take the forms of poppers...

Result: Course completed in 77 seconds. 24 rounds fired. 15 hits on 15 targets. 9 misses. No shots in the X-Ring on any but the first two targets.

3. Taped the flashlight to the revolver and said "Damn the powder burns on my Streamlight!". TREMENDOUS improvement! Both hands on firearm at all times now stabilized aim. Flashlight on barrell also sillouhetted the reloading procedure making reloads darn near as fast as full light reloads.

Result: Course completed in 42 seconds. 18 rounds fired. 15 hits on 15 targets. Three poppers dropped with 6 rounds.



Other notes: They guy with the best score ran with a flashlight/laser combo on a Glock with a rail. 28 seconds, one miss. One forced reload (by design).

The bottom line is really, really simple:

1. having a flashlight on the firearm resulted in MUCH faster times - like a 50% improvement over other methods.
2. It also gave the shooter a true two-hand hold which resulted in even greater accuracy.
3. No chance to lose the flashlight with a reload.
4. Lead bullet reloads absolutely SUCK at night due to the amount of smoke generated by the bullet lube baking off. Use FMJ's or Jacketed HP's to keep smoke down.
5. Muzzle Flash was really a non-issue - my eyes were already adjusted to the flashlight beam so the flash didn't make any difference. (PS: I tested this with my .357 - 21 grains of 2400 over a WinMag Primer and a 110gr bullet. 18" fireball flash out the front of the gun - my eyes had no problems refocusing with the flashlight.)

One final thing to consider: There ARE flashlight end-caps with a micro-switch that can be finger activated from the shooting hands much like lasers are. Using something like that means you can have quick flashes of illumination in a room so you can see what you are doing without having some blinding light acting like a beacon on your location.

My ultimate bottom line? My wife's XD now wears a flashlight on the underbarrell rail. It makes sense and is a helluva lot easier to work with.

[Bravo25]

Is this really a good idea? I don't think it is.... One of the rules is to never point your gun anywhere you don't intend to shoot. Sweeping a room with unknown people with a flashligt just doesn't seem wise. Also, doesn't this
"illumnate you" as a target?

What about a laser accessory? Any use or any good?

The second first. Laser mostly = bad idea. People spend more time looking for the dot rather than aquiring a good sight picture.

The first second. "Never point your gun anywhere you don't intend to shoot." Not so. This line of thinking can get you killed with a weapon in the holster. It is more accurate to say that you should not point your weapon at anything you are not prepared to destroy. I would much rather stand down, and put it away than be dead because I was to worried about where to point it. The key is DON'T put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

[LoadIt]

I agree with Bravo25 that you should keep your finger off of the trigger until ready to shoot.

I have a Streamlight M-3 on my G19. I practice using the "momentaty on" switch using my trigger finger to identify targets. That way my finger is never on the trigger while the light is on target. If I identify the target as hostile, I can activate the "on" switch to hold the target if I need to. I also reccomend illuminated night sights. And my sights are alot easier to quickly aquire than an itty-bitty laser dot.

[black bear 84]

I have a Crimson Trace laser grips in my .45 and I am more accurate with it than with the iron sights.
I am also much quicker to shoot and I avoid the tunnel vision effect as I don't have to bring my pistol to eye level to shoot.

Besides it is the only sight system that will allow you to shoot behind barricades with only one eye and your hand gun exposed.
I think that laser and a powerful flashlight that you don't have to pan around to find your target is the ultimate low-no light gunfighter technique.

I use a Surefire M-6 or my MAG 951 lumens light and I can see everything while Mr.Everything is completely blinded and unable to see me.
Those concerned about a light uncovering your position, are dead wrong, your position is already uncovered when you enter a location where your opponent’s eyes are adapted to the dark and yours are not.

The more powerful the light the better, a 65 lumens light will only have you panning the room to find your target, a 500 lumens lamp of a Surefire M-6 or the light from my MAG 951 can completely illuminate the entire room if is not to large, and with just a few degrees of movement in your hand you can in a second cover the entire area, even if is a warehouse.

Let me show you the difference between a 65 lumen flashlight like the G-2 or 6 P and the 500 lumens of a Surefire M-6 or the 951 lumens of my MAG 951
Here are the pictures.

Beamshot with the Surefire Centurion C-2 (65 lumens)



Beamshot with the Surefire M-6 (500 lumens lamp)



Beamshot with the MAG 951 (951 lumens)



I think that if you are going to take into yourself to clear a room, you should do it to your advantage and using the right equipment, the right equipment is available and if you are going to risk your life you should question yourself how much is your life worth? It is the price of a set of Crimson Trace grips or the price of a Mega light??

Besides I think that the employment of a more powerful light than usual when we confronting a gunfight at some range is much to our advantage. Many of us practice shooting at ranges of up to 20 meters (or yards) but who practice at that distance with a light??
Well my thinking is that if you practice at that distance you should be able to see at that distance and capable of identifying your target and shooting it if necessary.

So how you are going to do that when having, let say one of the popular Surefire L-4 Digital lumamax (60 lumen)

Do you know what it will show you at 20 meters?

Here is a picture of a target taken at 20 meters, using the Lumamax L-4 (60 lumens)



Here is the same target at 20 meters using a Surefire M-6 (500 lumens)



How you are going to identify your target at 20 meters with a 60 lumens light like the Surefire L-4 Digital Lumamax??
At that distance you don't know if this shadow is a bad guy or a nun!!

For those that are considering putting a light in your gun but don't have as rail, I have found a good solution. And let me tell you that I agree 100 % that a supplementary light with your gun is a great idea.

http://www.trgear.com/osc/eshop/prod...roducts_id/216

Here is a quick view.



Okay guys, you have my opinion.
black bear