The Weatherby Magnum Calibers... - Page 2

fourbore · May 9, 2016, 06:48 AM

Recoil is a relative. High velocity ammo was touted as an Alternative to High Recoil of the big bores. The wby might not be considered high recoil compared to the big bore guns it was intended to replace. In reality, you probably dont see many 300 wbys, replacing 375 H&H, 404 or 416. That was the claim, back in the day.

As for shooting a 6lb 30-06 over an 8 pound 300 mag. Give me that 6lb rifle all day long.

Anyone wanting a 460 wby, might consider a 505, 500, 577. The 500 a square makes better use of the powder capacity. More honest bragging rights. IMHO.

Modern conventional wisdom is a 'good' 458 on the 460 size case is the 450 rigby. The 460 wby case is a belted version of the 416 rigby case. Belt, radius shoulder, high pressure abomination vs the new 450 rigby gets it right.

fourbore · May 9, 2016, 07:00 AM

Since the 460m was mentioned, I like to concede a point before I get called out on it. Back in the day, the 460 could get loaded down to the equall of the modern lott, say 2300 fps. While the 458 win mag was lucky to make spec and by reports factory ammo fell short. Even today some factory ammo, norma I believe, is running under 2,000 fps. And Norma it still works. The conventional wisdom seems to be 2,300 or 2,400 is best, or high end limit, before moving up in bore size.

Boogershooter · May 9, 2016, 11:34 AM

Fourbore I guess I learned something today. I thought Roy designed the 300 weatherby to simply get more velocity. I didn't know it was meant to replace the big bores. Yes I know some people tried to use it for large dangerous African game but I a Lil common sense goes a long ways. As a kid my father explained calibers and bullets to me in the former of vehicles. The high velocity small bores were like Sportscars. If you kept them between the lines they were great fun but if you got off track the results could be fatal. Big bores were much heavier, much slower, more like a 4x4 van. If you were to strike a large tree or other object which would you rather be in?
The jacket of the bullet was the frame or chassis so therfore the big copper solids of the big bores were much more dependable that thinner jackets of the high velocity rounds. Yes bullet design has come along ways in the last 40 + years but I've always assumed most people hunted small things skinned game with .308 caliber and below but considered .375 the minimum for truely large game.

old roper · May 9, 2016, 04:50 PM

I was looking at Co 2016 big game regs and I can not finding anything that restricts use of any centerfire mag rifles.

Big Game Species Identification is for Elk,Moose,Mule Deer,White-Tail Deer, Bear and Pronghorn here in Co.

Hawg · May 9, 2016, 05:24 PM

I've got a MK V Deluxe in .257 WM. It's a good bean field gun for shots at 300-400 yards or better. Where I am now there's no bean fields so it's just gathering dust. It's not a good caliber for 200 yards or less.

Boogershooter · May 9, 2016, 10:03 PM

Sorry for all the typos in my last post. I also apologize because sometimes my thought don't get fully explained. My mind works faster than my fingers and I lose train of thought easily. I wasn't trying to say anything bad about any caliber. I truely enjoy shooting what I consider middle magnums. 300 weatherby thru 338 winmag. I put video cameras around my bench and that shows people they are flinching when they swear they are not. Usually one at the chronograph and one kindly above and behind the shooter. Usually on the opposite side of the shouldered rifle. This also shows how much the rifle jumps after the shot. I've had alot of shocked reactions from people after they see the video of their new super light 30-06 or 270 jumps. Sometimes completely off the bags. I've seen more men hit with scopes on these light rifles than any of the middle magnums.
It's popular here for men to buy the Lil compact rifles because they are easy to move in the box stand or blind. The remington model 7 and the compact rugers have tallied up more eyebrows than any other class of rifles. Most of this is because the scopes are mounted to far rearward for bench style shooting. Just my .02 cents, hope I didn't step on too many toes.

979Texas · May 10, 2016, 12:34 AM

Hey gentlemen, thanks for all of the great informative posts. I have greatly appreciated all of the wide ranges of opinions and input and I'm looking forward to hearing more from yall on this thread.

@Boogershooter, I totally agree with you about recoil and rifle kicks from light rifles. The worst kicking rifle I have ever shot was my .243. It was one those real small, short, light, and compact single shot NEF youth models. Its the only gun I have ever had the scope come back and hit my forehead with. I still have that gun to this day.

I do hear alot of negatives about the recoil of some of these Weatherby Magnums, and I have never shot any of these fine magnum calibers, but recoil has never bothered me at all and I never really notice it except on certain shotguns. I'm also a large man at 6 feet tall and 280 lbs so I don't know if that would have anything to do with my tolerance for recoil. But I just wonder if the recoil is really just that bad on some of these Weatherby Magnum calibers, I just have trouble believing that at least for some of those calibers.

But these Weatherby calibers do have extremely high ballistics which I am quite fond of amongst other capabilities of these calibers, so even if you do have to put up with some recoil, its just a tradeoff or a light sacrifice for superior ballistics and trajectory's. But like I said I have no experience with these calibers, thats why I started this thread so I can attain more knowledge.

Boogershooter · May 10, 2016, 01:56 AM

979 I'm not sure about all the details with recoil. I'm 6ft and 180 lbs. It's taken me 40 years to get to 180 lbs. Ive been told by some that a smaller man gets pushed around more and doesn't exactly feel the same recoil on the skeletal system that a big man does. They say a bigger man has more soft tissue on his shoulder that allows the rifle to move further rearward before actually moving the shooter. I'm not sure how true any of that is. I do believe however that there may be a difference in muscle tone of each person and muscle and flab do have different densities. I guess that's why they say recoil is relative.
I grew up shooting shotguns alot. Most don't think about the recoil of a shotgun because they are usually standing whIle shooting. If you are shooting full power loads especially the 3 and 3 1/2 inch loads then you truely begin to feel the recoil. Most of your big bore magnums are comparable to these. I've asked quite a few people to lay one on a bench and shoot it like a rifle. After doing so they usually agree they wouldn't shoot a rifle with similar recoil if it had a high power scope on it. Believe me I'm no expert in any category of marksmanship but I am pretty good at knowing my limits. 375 h&h is my limit of being able to lay a rifle down on a bench and making a good shot.
Recoil velocity is what hurts. It's common for people to buy magnums then shoot the lightest bullets they can find for the velocity and less recoil. Most long range shooters will tell you that normally the heavy for caliber bullets have the higher ballistic coefficient. In my weatherby magnums I can't get the light bullets to shoot well. So be prepared because the heavier bullet you are pushing out of the barrel the harder the rifle is going to kick.

Dufus · May 10, 2016, 04:41 PM

I admire the Weatherby rifles simply because the finish is very nice. I have a Vanguard that is nice looking and nice to shoot...30-06.

I have a Mark 5 in 460. Nice wood and nice finish.

I won't shoot the 460 off a bench but have no reservations standing.

A Win M70 in 338 WM is very hard to shoot off the bench. Felt recoil is horrible.

I also have a Win M70 in 375 H&H that has much less felt recoil than the 338WM.

The Vanguard had excellent accuracy and I can shoot the 460 to 1.5" at 100 with 5 shots. It takes me maybe 15 minutes per shot to do so. The barrel gets hot quick.

fourbore · May 10, 2016, 08:51 PM

Quote:

The worst kicking rifle I have ever shot was my .243. It was one those real small, short, light, and compact single shot NEF youth models. Its the only gun I have ever had the scope come back and hit my forehead with. I still have that gun to this day.

I have two friends that hunt deer with this exact same gun. They have both replaced the stock with a synthetic adult stock. it is a very-very-very mild shooting gun. Both fast handling and easy to carry. As you say, It might be a problem for an adult with that youth stock and scope to far back.

To say this gun, kicks is a bit misleading. Maybe your worst experience to date, but; this was a real sweet package that will be missed, now that remlin has discontinued this gun.

This maybe drifting a bit OT, but the American shooting scene is taking advantage of the 6.5 mm bullets with a couple new rounds that have some excellent long range potential. Flat shooting and retained energy all out of proportion to the size. I guess you call it efficiency, but; if you are looking for hi velocity that really plays out well down range google the 6.5 creedmore. You dont get the big boom as part of the experience, or the wby nostalgia. These 6.5's are really making a strong showing. I would like to try one sometime. I dont know if the Hornady factory loads are strictly match ammo or if you can buy hunting loads. Probably a hand loading situation with wby or the new 6.5's. The old 6.5 sweede should do the same job, but the creedmore is the sexy new deal. My 2c: 6.rmm could be an alternative to some of the massive thirties. It is not how fast you start out, it is how you end up.

979Texas · May 11, 2016, 12:49 AM

Yeah I've been pretty familiar with the 6.5 Creedmoor for about 5 years now. It's a good cartridge but I would never buy one it's got decent ballistics but very little difference in that and a more seasoned .260 Remington. And with the Creedmoor your barely getting 3000 fps and 2400 ftlbs with a 120 grain amax when compared to a .257 Weatherby where you're getting over 3300 fps and nearly 3000 ftlbs. With a 120 grain bullet. There's just not a lot to compare there at all. One is the dominant caliber, while the other is just plain weaker.
I'm not dissing the 6.5, it is a great efficient and innovative cartridge, and I happen to be huge fans of the 6.5 Grendels in AR platforms, and also the .260 Remington in AR type platforms. And both of those are definently on my guns to own bucket list. But comparing these 6.5 cartridges to the Weatherby Mags, it's like comparing apples to oranges, except for the 26 Nosler, now that is a 6.5 cartridge definently in the Weatherby leagues. And nostalgia has absolutely nothing to do at all with my interest and fondness of the Weatherby Mags.

Art Eatman · May 11, 2016, 09:08 AM

At the time of their introduction, Weatherby cartridges were pretty much superior in their ballistics over most others. They're still competitive in performance, after decades of R&D by others. Kudos to Mr. Roy.

Then again, so's the '06 a hunter's competitive cartridge.

Jack O'Conner · May 12, 2016, 06:25 AM

Roy's 257 Weatherby MAG is the only one with slight appeal to me because of its manageable recoil and very flat trajectory. Sort of like the 25-06 on steroids. The remainder of Weatherby cartridges have zero appeal to me. I'm no fan of heavy recoil and muzzle blast.

Jack

Rancid · May 12, 2016, 08:32 AM

So, the moral of this story is buy and shoot what you want and what you like. I own everything from a 17 to a 338 Lapua, with Wby's thrown in for good measure. I tend to like the big boomers and recoil is where you find it.

Got to Wally World and pick up a cheap short barrel Remington 870 pump. Buy a box of slugs and a big hammer. Find a good friend and a bench somewhere. Shoot some slugs over a sandbag. Then, get your friend to hit you in the shoulder with the hammer to deaden the pain from the 870.

So, yes, the big magnums do have some recoil, but so does your cheap duck gun. Wby mags, RUM's, short magnums, all have their place and as long as folks like ole Roy have the freedoms to come up with different variations of the old velocity/calber/bullet scenarios we will always have something to talk and argue about. I like it!

May 9, 2016, 04:50 PM	#29
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	I was looking at Co 2016 big game regs and I can not finding anything that restricts use of any centerfire mag rifles. Big Game Species Identification is for Elk,Moose,Mule Deer,White-Tail Deer, Bear and Pronghorn here in Co. __________________ Semper Fi Vietnam 1965 VFW Life member NRA Life Member

May 12, 2016, 06:25 AM	#38
Jack O'Conner Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Manatee County, Florida Posts: 1,976	Roy's 257 Weatherby MAG is the only one with slight appeal to me because of its manageable recoil and very flat trajectory. Sort of like the 25-06 on steroids. The remainder of Weatherby cartridges have zero appeal to me. I'm no fan of heavy recoil and muzzle blast. Jack __________________ Fire up the grill! Deer hunting IS NOT catch and release.

May 9, 2016, 06:48 AM	#26
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	Recoil is a relative. High velocity ammo was touted as an Alternative to High Recoil of the big bores. The wby might not be considered high recoil compared to the big bore guns it was intended to replace. In reality, you probably dont see many 300 wbys, replacing 375 H&H, 404 or 416. That was the claim, back in the day. As for shooting a 6lb 30-06 over an 8 pound 300 mag. Give me that 6lb rifle all day long. Anyone wanting a 460 wby, might consider a 505, 500, 577. The 500 a square makes better use of the powder capacity. More honest bragging rights. IMHO. Modern conventional wisdom is a 'good' 458 on the 460 size case is the 450 rigby. The 460 wby case is a belted version of the 416 rigby case. Belt, radius shoulder, high pressure abomination vs the new 450 rigby gets it right.

May 9, 2016, 07:00 AM	#27
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	Since the 460m was mentioned, I like to concede a point before I get called out on it. Back in the day, the 460 could get loaded down to the equall of the modern lott, say 2300 fps. While the 458 win mag was lucky to make spec and by reports factory ammo fell short. Even today some factory ammo, norma I believe, is running under 2,000 fps. And Norma it still works. The conventional wisdom seems to be 2,300 or 2,400 is best, or high end limit, before moving up in bore size.

May 9, 2016, 11:34 AM	#28
Boogershooter Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2014 Posts: 645	Fourbore I guess I learned something today. I thought Roy designed the 300 weatherby to simply get more velocity. I didn't know it was meant to replace the big bores. Yes I know some people tried to use it for large dangerous African game but I a Lil common sense goes a long ways. As a kid my father explained calibers and bullets to me in the former of vehicles. The high velocity small bores were like Sportscars. If you kept them between the lines they were great fun but if you got off track the results could be fatal. Big bores were much heavier, much slower, more like a 4x4 van. If you were to strike a large tree or other object which would you rather be in? The jacket of the bullet was the frame or chassis so therfore the big copper solids of the big bores were much more dependable that thinner jackets of the high velocity rounds. Yes bullet design has come along ways in the last 40 + years but I've always assumed most people hunted small things skinned game with .308 caliber and below but considered .375 the minimum for truely large game.

May 9, 2016, 05:24 PM	#30
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I've got a MK V Deluxe in .257 WM. It's a good bean field gun for shots at 300-400 yards or better. Where I am now there's no bean fields so it's just gathering dust. It's not a good caliber for 200 yards or less.

May 9, 2016, 10:03 PM	#31
Boogershooter Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2014 Posts: 645	Sorry for all the typos in my last post. I also apologize because sometimes my thought don't get fully explained. My mind works faster than my fingers and I lose train of thought easily. I wasn't trying to say anything bad about any caliber. I truely enjoy shooting what I consider middle magnums. 300 weatherby thru 338 winmag. I put video cameras around my bench and that shows people they are flinching when they swear they are not. Usually one at the chronograph and one kindly above and behind the shooter. Usually on the opposite side of the shouldered rifle. This also shows how much the rifle jumps after the shot. I've had alot of shocked reactions from people after they see the video of their new super light 30-06 or 270 jumps. Sometimes completely off the bags. I've seen more men hit with scopes on these light rifles than any of the middle magnums. It's popular here for men to buy the Lil compact rifles because they are easy to move in the box stand or blind. The remington model 7 and the compact rugers have tallied up more eyebrows than any other class of rifles. Most of this is because the scopes are mounted to far rearward for bench style shooting. Just my .02 cents, hope I didn't step on too many toes.

May 10, 2016, 12:34 AM	#32
979Texas Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2015 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 177	Hey gentlemen, thanks for all of the great informative posts. I have greatly appreciated all of the wide ranges of opinions and input and I'm looking forward to hearing more from yall on this thread. @Boogershooter, I totally agree with you about recoil and rifle kicks from light rifles. The worst kicking rifle I have ever shot was my .243. It was one those real small, short, light, and compact single shot NEF youth models. Its the only gun I have ever had the scope come back and hit my forehead with. I still have that gun to this day. I do hear alot of negatives about the recoil of some of these Weatherby Magnums, and I have never shot any of these fine magnum calibers, but recoil has never bothered me at all and I never really notice it except on certain shotguns. I'm also a large man at 6 feet tall and 280 lbs so I don't know if that would have anything to do with my tolerance for recoil. But I just wonder if the recoil is really just that bad on some of these Weatherby Magnum calibers, I just have trouble believing that at least for some of those calibers. But these Weatherby calibers do have extremely high ballistics which I am quite fond of amongst other capabilities of these calibers, so even if you do have to put up with some recoil, its just a tradeoff or a light sacrifice for superior ballistics and trajectory's. But like I said I have no experience with these calibers, thats why I started this thread so I can attain more knowledge.

May 10, 2016, 01:56 AM	#33
Boogershooter Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2014 Posts: 645	979 I'm not sure about all the details with recoil. I'm 6ft and 180 lbs. It's taken me 40 years to get to 180 lbs. Ive been told by some that a smaller man gets pushed around more and doesn't exactly feel the same recoil on the skeletal system that a big man does. They say a bigger man has more soft tissue on his shoulder that allows the rifle to move further rearward before actually moving the shooter. I'm not sure how true any of that is. I do believe however that there may be a difference in muscle tone of each person and muscle and flab do have different densities. I guess that's why they say recoil is relative. I grew up shooting shotguns alot. Most don't think about the recoil of a shotgun because they are usually standing whIle shooting. If you are shooting full power loads especially the 3 and 3 1/2 inch loads then you truely begin to feel the recoil. Most of your big bore magnums are comparable to these. I've asked quite a few people to lay one on a bench and shoot it like a rifle. After doing so they usually agree they wouldn't shoot a rifle with similar recoil if it had a high power scope on it. Believe me I'm no expert in any category of marksmanship but I am pretty good at knowing my limits. 375 h&h is my limit of being able to lay a rifle down on a bench and making a good shot. Recoil velocity is what hurts. It's common for people to buy magnums then shoot the lightest bullets they can find for the velocity and less recoil. Most long range shooters will tell you that normally the heavy for caliber bullets have the higher ballistic coefficient. In my weatherby magnums I can't get the light bullets to shoot well. So be prepared because the heavier bullet you are pushing out of the barrel the harder the rifle is going to kick.

May 10, 2016, 04:41 PM	#34
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	I admire the Weatherby rifles simply because the finish is very nice. I have a Vanguard that is nice looking and nice to shoot...30-06. I have a Mark 5 in 460. Nice wood and nice finish. I won't shoot the 460 off a bench but have no reservations standing. A Win M70 in 338 WM is very hard to shoot off the bench. Felt recoil is horrible. I also have a Win M70 in 375 H&H that has much less felt recoil than the 338WM. The Vanguard had excellent accuracy and I can shoot the 460 to 1.5" at 100 with 5 shots. It takes me maybe 15 minutes per shot to do so. The barrel gets hot quick.

May 11, 2016, 12:49 AM	#36
979Texas Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2015 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 177	Yeah I've been pretty familiar with the 6.5 Creedmoor for about 5 years now. It's a good cartridge but I would never buy one it's got decent ballistics but very little difference in that and a more seasoned .260 Remington. And with the Creedmoor your barely getting 3000 fps and 2400 ftlbs with a 120 grain amax when compared to a .257 Weatherby where you're getting over 3300 fps and nearly 3000 ftlbs. With a 120 grain bullet. There's just not a lot to compare there at all. One is the dominant caliber, while the other is just plain weaker. I'm not dissing the 6.5, it is a great efficient and innovative cartridge, and I happen to be huge fans of the 6.5 Grendels in AR platforms, and also the .260 Remington in AR type platforms. And both of those are definently on my guns to own bucket list. But comparing these 6.5 cartridges to the Weatherby Mags, it's like comparing apples to oranges, except for the 26 Nosler, now that is a 6.5 cartridge definently in the Weatherby leagues. And nostalgia has absolutely nothing to do at all with my interest and fondness of the Weatherby Mags.

May 11, 2016, 09:08 AM	#37
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	At the time of their introduction, Weatherby cartridges were pretty much superior in their ballistics over most others. They're still competitive in performance, after decades of R&D by others. Kudos to Mr. Roy. Then again, so's the '06 a hunter's competitive cartridge.

May 12, 2016, 08:32 AM	#39
Rancid Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2015 Posts: 185	So, the moral of this story is buy and shoot what you want and what you like. I own everything from a 17 to a 338 Lapua, with Wby's thrown in for good measure. I tend to like the big boomers and recoil is where you find it. Got to Wally World and pick up a cheap short barrel Remington 870 pump. Buy a box of slugs and a big hammer. Find a good friend and a bench somewhere. Shoot some slugs over a sandbag. Then, get your friend to hit you in the shoulder with the hammer to deaden the pain from the 870. So, yes, the big magnums do have some recoil, but so does your cheap duck gun. Wby mags, RUM's, short magnums, all have their place and as long as folks like ole Roy have the freedoms to come up with different variations of the old velocity/calber/bullet scenarios we will always have something to talk and argue about. I like it!