December 17, 2014, 11:44 PM | #26 |
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As fast as a bear can move and that lighting is usually dismal, I could see the Glock 10mm as a real possibility with full power loads. More ammo could mean more hits. As much as I love my sixguns, auto's and mags are easier to carry.
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December 18, 2014, 12:04 PM | #27 | |
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Well Deaf, you can blast away from 20 yards with a big bore handgun at a bear huggin' your wife, but not me. I shoot a lot of handgun, but still would refrain and use the spray first a close range. While it might sting her eyes, at least I wouldn't be responsible for adding another hole in her. Same goes for chasing other people. Real life is not a Dirty Harry movie or T.V. cop shows and the average internet forum member that needs to ask "which gun for bear" cannot shoot well enough to safely "snipe" a bear that is kissing distance from another person. You could be the exception, maybe. Beside the chances of hitting the person being mauled, because of the position of the bear when mauling someone else, odds are you are not going to kill the bear instantly, but only enrage them, even with a killing shot to the vitals. Hitting the CNS on a rapidly moving large animal with a handgun while under duress is not an easy task for most folks either. This is true also if the animal is wrestling with someone else next to you in a tent.... in the dark. Again, you may be the exception. Most bear sprays work out to 10 yards, and in most cases the spray does stop them, far more efficiently than handgun calibers in the hands of the average Joe. While a handgun is a good idea, in Black Bear country, odds are if you become prey, it will be from a two legged predator. BTW...bear spray works well on them also. |
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December 18, 2014, 12:55 PM | #28 |
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I use to drag a trailer up to Mack's Inn west of YNP and had many griz visits. Had one walk past my campfire chumfing the whole time. I once came across a pile of poop on a trail in western Montana I had walked an hour earlier minus the poop pile and if griz poop kind of resembles people poop except bigger, and more then whatever broke and crashed thru the bushes going up a hill may have been a griz. I thought it was and went down the trail doing 360s shooter unholstered down the trail until I got to another lake that had some people.
Buck's probably right about bear spray, I bought a can and did as the manufacturer suggested and took it out in the back yard to test and see how it sprayed, anyway the area I was in was a choke fest for half the day, the can is still in a closet never carried. |
December 18, 2014, 06:52 PM | #29 | |
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To me that is the way to go if bears are a real concern. 4 shot Mossie does not weigh all that much and add a 4 shot tac-star side saddle (my Mariner Mossberg has that very setup) is far more comforting.. and capable. Sure I'll pack my 629-1, but I know handguns have limited ability and a 12 gauge is much better. MUCH better. Deaf
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December 18, 2014, 09:39 PM | #30 |
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SP101 works great for Black Bears. Anything larger and the .45 Colt takes over. Hot Ruger loads.
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December 18, 2014, 10:54 PM | #31 |
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454 heavy why take chances.:d
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December 19, 2014, 02:19 AM | #32 | |
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http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...highlight=bear Except it wasn't the WIFE being mauled it was the HUSBAND. And the answer was the trusty 12 gauge shotgun. Except she didn't shoot it she waded in and clubbed the bear Louisville Slugger style till the bear let her husband go. Personally I like the information about 'guns for bears' at the beginning of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGHKkAvBWUE |
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December 19, 2014, 02:59 AM | #33 |
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DaleA, That youtube clip was entertaining.
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December 20, 2014, 03:26 AM | #34 | |
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And try firing that pepper spray into a breeze and see how accurate the magazine propaganda is. I TESTED that stuff while hiking in Grizzly country because of all the hype from the magazines and National Parks. Well, that was the last time I ever packed my can UDAP spray. I was defenseless when that "slight breeze" pushed that crap back into my face!!! Now.... if the nice little Teddy is polite and agrees to stand down wind, I might trust a can of pepper seasoning over my 454. You would be surprised how a warning shot of their bow will scare them off before they even get in range of a can of pepper spray.
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Gun permit?? A bread crumb tossed to a sleeping society awoken by the sound of complacency. "They are for your own good", and "you will understand when you see all the lives they save". Yes master, what else will you toss me from your bag of infringements?? Do you want me to roll over and play dead? I do that very well. --skidder Last edited by skidder; December 20, 2014 at 03:37 AM. |
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December 20, 2014, 03:07 PM | #35 | |
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December 21, 2014, 12:27 AM | #36 |
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This subject comes up a lot. There are always multiple suggestions that you really should be packing a rifle or shotgun. While that might be true, it's also not a good suggestion for many. The reason the question is asked is because the person doesn't want to carry such a weapon and is trying to get advice on the best option for a pistol.
Here is what I've garnered from reading the threads for the past year or so. Apparently the .454 Casull is the best choice. No one seems to question it has the best chance to get a positive result. .44 Magnum is the most common choice. .357 Magnum is considered a borderline choice, but gets mentioned. Heavy non-hollow point bullets are suggested as the preferable ammo for penetration. On a different note: Self defense sprays do have a well recognized problem with wind. Gels lessen this problem. If the bear spray is not a gel, it could end up being a hazard to yourself. 10 yards maximum range makes it a last ditch defense in my personal opinion. I would prefer the option of an easily portable pistol that gives the option to possibly prevent something at longer range if given the opportunity to do so. A bear spray gel would probably be a good option for a back-up weapon. If you've plowed a few rounds into the bear and THEN hit him with pepper gel, he'll likely be amazingly screwed up. |
December 21, 2014, 08:50 AM | #37 |
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I've carried a variety of handguns while grouse hunting and finally settled on a Smith .45 Colt mountain gun. I carry it with a cast performance 265gr. gas check bullet on top of 9.5 gr. of Unique for about 1000fps. Excellent accuracy and much less recoil and muzzle blast than a .44 magnum. We only have blackies in our neck of the woods and I've never had to actually use it, thank God. I feel this combination to be a good choice as it would allow for fast follow up shots for protecting myself and the dogs should the need ever arise.
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December 21, 2014, 04:16 PM | #38 |
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When I have camped or hiked in "grizzly" country I've carried a Ruger Mk II.
Loads of fun and perfect for squirrel and the occasional blue grouse. In the lower 48 (with some exceptions) you pretty much have to actively look for bears, other wise you won't see them. |
December 21, 2014, 06:33 PM | #39 |
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.454 Casull, of course!
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December 21, 2014, 09:17 PM | #40 |
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How about less violence, please hug a bear today. Oh and have someone film it so we can all watch.
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December 21, 2014, 09:27 PM | #41 |
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Mathematics... Numbers...
Find a picture of a bear in "charging mode" and enlarge it to full size, with particular attention to the face on that picture, with particular attention to the nose on that face. Set this target at 30 yards.
I am told that a bear can lunge as fast as 40 m.p.h. (58.1 f/s) for short distances. I don't really know if 60 feet is a short distance for a bear, but I would bet that it is. This gives you 1.033 seconds to draw and fire at least one shot into the bear's nose (but let's say anywhere in the face within a 2 inch radius of the nose. But not just ANY shot. It must be a shot powerful enough to smash through bear snout and bear skull and lodge deep enough into its brain to turn off the electricity (thus motor nerve impulses) almost instantly. Let's say, no less than 200 grains, hard cast, at no less than 1000 f/s from the muzzle. This means a hot .357, a warm .44 Special, a warm .45 Colt or .45 A.C.P. +P, and certainly any .41, .44, or .454 Mag load worthy of the name. Try this exercise, 50 shots worth, with every qualified caliber to which you have access. If you can do it 45 out of 50 times, you can probably defend yourself from a bear with a pistol. If not, it's probably Mossberg (and bear spray) time. |
December 22, 2014, 12:17 AM | #42 |
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You're assuming the situation goes from total woodland peacefulness with no recognized bear presence to a full speed charging bear from out of nowhere as the standard. So far this hasn't proven to be the case and isn't a reasonable standard. Pretty much nothing you suggested would work in the no win (and rare) example you presented.
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December 22, 2014, 06:10 PM | #43 | |
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We HOPE we have notice of the bears intentions, but we prepare on the assumption we will have no or little warning. Deaf
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December 22, 2014, 11:58 PM | #44 |
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Then I'll celebrate, every time I'm found to be wrong.
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December 24, 2014, 12:01 AM | #45 |
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Start celebrating:
Causes of bear attacks Almost all recorded bear attacks in the wild have resulted from the human surprising the bear. Hunters are the people most at risk of bear attacks because, as Tom Smith, a U.S. Geographical Survey research biologist, describes, "Hunters typically aren't making any noise, and they sleuth around while wearing camo."[47] Hunters try to be silent and, though many hunters wear reflective clothing so as not to become targets for other hunters, they try to hide their movements so as not to startle game. Most bear attacks result from hunters suddenly appearing in front of them, startling a bear into an instinctive act of aggression. However, a bear's first reaction upon detecting a human is to run away |
December 24, 2014, 08:41 AM | #46 | |
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And mother bears with cubs? When confronted with wild animals there is no reliable way you can predict what they will do. Even deer have attacked and killed humans. Deaf
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December 25, 2014, 12:10 PM | #47 |
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You guys should read up on the subject. This is only about black bears, but it's pretty interesting:
http://black-bear.org/orig_data/BART...ar-Herrero.pdf |
December 25, 2014, 01:32 PM | #48 | |
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December 25, 2014, 04:32 PM | #49 |
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^^^
?? Ha!
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December 25, 2014, 05:29 PM | #50 | |
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Deaf
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