Ruger Mini-Thirty Tactical and why its better than an AR.

[Fishbed77]

All I can say is that there is a lot of misinformation in the original post.

[tirod]

It obviously needed some of these



As for the x39 being better on deer, it's a tradeoff. The effective pointblank range is a lot shorter carrying 1000 foot pounds out to it's limit. That means the bullet drops faster at the end of its range and holdover becomes a major problem.

Not to forget it's less powerful then the .30-30.

The overall result is that you get an adequate round for less than 150 yards, but your buddy and his AR will hit the deer another 100 yards further out with less correction. It's up to you in your environment whether you need that.

Just in case someone does want to play around with one, the Colt CK901 is out which fires AK mags thru the superior AR DI pistonless gas system, as is intended for any American worth his man card for the last 45 years.

At least, those of us who have earned ours.

Thus combining two virtues necessary on the internet, a decent rifle capable of shooting the world's worst imported junk ever foisted on the American public.

As if that is some kind of virtue. Personally, I'd almost shoot 6.5 Grendel - but it's just a necked down version of the same stuff.

Having more sense, I built my own and don't sweat whether the BATF rules against another import round being declared "pistol ammo." The cartridge I chose was designed by Special Forces and the AMU. I'd tell you about it but it would require having to ensure you never ever mentioned it to anyone else.

To further that effort, I encourage one and all to keep shooting Mini's in 7.62x39. Darwin's laws will prevail, and pretty much solve the issue.

Does that seem to emulate the OP better? We need a tongue in cheek smiley.

[Unlicensed Dremel]

Well, you laid out a good argument, but I'd disagree somewhat.

First, the round is inferior to say, 6.8 spc, which you CAN get in an AR15 (can you get it in a Mini?). Even the 5.56x45 is superior to the ruskie round, IMO. So right off the bat, I ain't with ya.

Second, see sig - only accurate rifles are interesting. These have a reputation for horrible accuracy. Is it deserved in the x39 versions? You tell me.

Next, the Minis are horridly ugly, but I don't really 'count that' since it's just eye of beholder and irrelevant to other people with other tastes.

Beyond that, I'm with ya. The accuracy thing is the main thing, since a Mini CAN be had in a superior chambering (Mini 14).

[JD0x0]

First, the round is inferior to say, 6.8 spc, which you CAN get in an AR15 (can you get it in a Mini?).

Yes, there was a 6.8SPC version of the Mini briefly. Look it up.
Probably dropped it because the 6.8spc didn't really catch on. IE. not enough demand for those rifles due to ammo cost/availability compared to .223/7.62x39

only accurate rifles are interesting

Mini's can be accurate. The new heavier barreled ones are significantly more accurate than the older ones. The reputation for 'bad' accuracy is from the older Rugers. Not to say there still aren't lemons here and there. It seems for the most part they can hold decent groups, and the 'accustrut' is supposed to help tighten groups and also cool the barrel more efficiently. On a whole, it may be true the AR15 platform is more accurate, I'd still have to call the Mini's accurate enough to be 'interesting.'

Not to forget it's less powerful then the .30-30.

IMO the difference in power gets exaggerated a bit. .30-30 commonly has heavier bullets than used in the x39 but most .30-30's are chrono'd from long 24'' barrels, where as the x39 is often chrono'd from a ~16'' barrel. .30-30 in a 16'' barrel would likely barely develop more energy than the x39. and then there's the fact that the spitzers used in the x39 are more aerodynamic and retain their velocity better and are less affected by wind than common .30-30 bullets.
Before someone mentions the Leverrevolution type bullets, know that while they're an improvement over standard bullets used in lever guns, their BC's are still inferior despite having both a weight and diameter advantage over the 123 grain bullets commonly used in the 7.62x39. This is likely due to the shorter Ogive on the LeverEVO's giving them a less streamlined shape. One could argue you could use standard spitzers in the .30-30 but you'd need a rifle that was designed for it, and you'd have to hand load your ammo.

[tahunua001]

Just in case someone does want to play around with one, the Colt CK901 is out which fires AK mags thru the superior AR DI pistonless gas system, as is intended for any American worth his man card for the last 45 years.

At least, those of us who have earned ours.

I'm still in the application process

As if that is some kind of virtue. Personally, I'd almost shoot 6.5 Grendel - but it's just a necked down version of the same stuff.

although this is somewhat true(based on 220 russian but still bears very close resemblance to x39), I think that it gains a great deal over the 7.62x39. a 6.5mm bullet in the same standard weight as 7.62x39 launched at about the same velocity as x39 and therefore generates about the same energy at the muzzle however 6.5 has much better ballistic coefficients all the way around allowing the 6.5 to perform well all the way out to 400 yards. personally I'm taking my grendel out for both deer and elk hunting this year, using special handloads for elk and factory 123gr SSTs for deer. also, there is no crappy commie steel cased corrosive or berdan primed 6.5 ammo, it's all nice, brass boxer primed and fairly nice quality. FWIW 6.5 also uses standard contour AR mags, just needs a special follower.

EDIT:

IMO the difference in power gets exaggerated a bit. .30-30 commonly has heavier bullets than used in the x39 but most .30-30's are chrono'd from long 24'' barrels, where as the x39 is often chrono'd from a ~16'' barrel. .30-30 in a 16'' barrel would likely barely develop more energy than the x39. and then there's the fact that the spitzers used in the x39 are more aerodynamic and retain their velocity better and are less affected by wind than common .30-30 bullets.
Before someone mentions the Leverrevolution type bullets, know that while they're an improvement over standard bullets used in lever guns, their BC's are still inferior despite having both a weight and diameter advantage over the 123 grain bullets commonly used in the 7.62x39. This is likely due to the shorter Ogive on the LeverEVO's giving them a less streamlined shape. One could argue you could use standard spitzers in the .30-30 but you'd need a rifle that was designed for it, and you'd have to hand load your ammo.

actually most people compare 30-30 in 20 inch barrels, the standard lever action length just as they compare x39 in 16 inch because that is the standard barrel length for AKs. they do this because nobody slaps a 16 inch barrel on a lever action just as nobody puts a 24 inch barrel on an AK. if you are going to compare a cartridge then you do so in the rifles that it most applies to. using standard barrel lengths 30-30 has the same velocity as x39 but that is comparing a 170gr 30-30 to a 123gr x39 which gives the 30-30 a significant increase in the energy. the heavier you go with both the more the velocity drops but the 30-30 maintains more energy the entire time. comparing a 16 inch barreled 30-30 to a 24 inch barreled x39 is just unrealistic. it's not impossible and rifles exist in each option but the vaste majority, including the rifles discussed here do not fit those scenarios.

[SVTCobra306]

Yes, there was a 6.8SPC version of the Mini briefly. Look it up.
Probably dropped it because the 6.8spc didn't really catch on. IE. not enough demand for those rifles due to ammo cost/availability compared to .223/7.62x39

I would LOVE to have one of the 6.8 Mini-14's..

I like my Ruger products, they are what they are, and I've had my Mini for a long time, AND I'm in the market for another one.. but, given the choice, I like my AR's a little more. I've said before, the Mini was a great value rifle when it was $300 cheaper than an AR, but that is no longer the case.

And Ruger doesn't offer a lifetime warranty... they actually state in their manuals that they offer no expressed warranty, however I have been told by multiple people who have sent a gun in that their service is pretty stand-up, and I have yet to hear of anyone having to pay to get a gun repaired. None of them were of the AC556 variety however.

[FALshootist]

Most of these comments seem to compare the Mini 30 with the 5.56 AR15.

The correct comparison should be the Mini 30 with the 7.62 x 39 AR. In that case the OP maybe correct the Mini 30 may be the better rifle. At least the more reliable one.

Its always been my understanding that the 7.62 AR was unreliable because of the taper in the 7.62 cartridge and the need for a constant curve magazine like the AK.

If I was looking for a 7.62 x 39 rifle it would be a second generation SIG 556R. They are reliable, accurate and take cheap AK mags.

[tahunua001]

Its always been my understanding that the 7.62 AR was unreliable because of the tamper in the 7.62 cartridge and the need for a constant curve magazine like the AK.

this is a common rumor, the bigger problem is companies putting weak mags and bad followers in the magazines causing feed issues, a lot of times people end up getting stronger springs and anti tilt followers and they work just as reliably as any other AR chambering.

and I stated, 6.5 grendel has nearly an identical case taper and it uses standard contour mags with different followers and springs, mine at least has been perfectly reliable, though I have a low round count in mine as of yet.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by FALshootist

Most of these comments seem to compare the Mini 30 with the 5.56 AR15.

That's because the OP compared the Mini-30 with the AR-15.

[FALshootist]

That's because the OP compared the Mini-30 with the AR-15.

Do doubt Theohazard. But the correct comparison should be between rifles chambered for the same cartridge.

this is a common rumor, the bigger problem is companies putting weak mags and bad followers in the magazines causing feed issues, a lot of times people end up getting stronger springs and anti tilt followers and they work just as reliably as any other AR chambering.

and I stated, 6.5 grendel has nearly an identical case taper and it uses standard contour mags with different followers and springs, mine at least has been perfectly reliable, though I have a low round count in mine as of yet.

Tahunua001, that may be but I find it hard to believe Colt couldn't figure that out.

Like I said earlier, if you want a 7.62x39 rifle that's accurate, reliable and takes cheap, readily available magazines, get the second generation SIG 556R.

In 5.56 there is no question, get a quality AR15.

[coldbeer]

I've wanted a mini 14 forever but they're too expensive for what they are. I'd get one if they cost between $500-$600, but at $700-$800 no way. I can get an AR for that kind of money.

[Sarge]

I've wanted a mini 14 forever but they're too expensive for what they are...

I love the handling qualities of the Mini and my last 580 Ranch would do repeatable 3/4", 3 shot groups at 100 using 65 grain Sierras and H4895 powder. But there is no arguing with the above logic and when you consider the price of Ruger magazines, it's impossible to justify buying a new Mini over an AR.

But if you gave me a 'free .223 and 10 mags' coupon, I'd grab a late-production blue/walnut Ranch rifle in a heartbeat.

[JD0x0]

I'd say the same thing about a Mini30 vs a good AK variant. You can get a PAP or pretty much any other semi auto AK variant for less than a Mini, and probably get comparable accuracy from a decent example.

[darkgael]

Can a non-service rifle be used in a service rifle match?

No. My mistake, sorry. The Mini would have to be entered as a match rifle.
It would have been more accurate to say that one rarely sees Minis in HP matches.
I had one - a Mini 14 - years ago. I really wanted to like that rifle. It just would not group. Gave it to my son. Bought an AR... took it to the range with the same ammo and got sub-MOA groups out of the box with irons.
Pete

[rugerdawg]

I've built a lot of ar's and personally if I could only get it to shoot 2 moa, I'd take it apart and start over.

[reynolds357]

So, gas coming into the bolt of the AR causes excessive heat buildup? I guess at some crazy round count, that might be true, but for all practical purposes it is bogus. The barrel would glow before the bolt over heated. Every once in a while we play with a couple of M16 A1 rifles our department has. The Full auto fire rate of the A1 is "fast" to say the least. We have fed them mag after mag after mag after mag (full auto 7 to 15 round bursts, 3 to 4 seconds per magazine) with no heat problems in the bolt. The barrel will burn you like a torch, but no bolt issues.

[reynolds357]

Feeding issues may or may not be a problem with the ar 7.62 X 39. I personally think trash magazines are the cause. Hypothetically, if the 7.62 X 39 will not feed in the AR, we have the .300 Whisper/Blackout that will definitely feed reliably.

[Technosavant]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

The barrel will burn you like a torch, but no bolt issues.

If you have a low quality bolt it can be an issue. Good quality ones (decent steel, tested to ensure no microscopic issues) will be fine. An iffy one (cheap steel, never tested to find problems) are likely to snap at the cam pin hole when they get run good and hard.

A good example of where a small amount of money can pay good dividends- it's less than $50 to go from an el cheapo no name poor spec untested bolt carrier group to one from a reputable maker, made of Carpenter 158 steel, and HP/MPT so you know what you're putting in your rifle. The cheap one MIGHT be decent. With the quality one you know what you bought and what you can expect.

[reynolds357]

Junk will be junk. If we bring the equation of junk parts into the build, we will have failure at every point.

[tahunua001]

I love how AK VS AR VS whatever always inevitably compares high quality on one side and junk on the other. either compare top shelf to top shelf, low to low or average to average. if you're looking an average quality mini 30 the compare it to an average quality AR; DPMS/bushmaster/remington, rock river arms, stag, something along those lines.

[reynolds357]

Does Ruger have different quality standard in the mini 30? Price wise it compares to a high-mid to upper shelf AR.
My response was in reply to the fact that junk AR bolts with micro cracks will break when they get hot. Most anything with micro cracks in it will break when it gets hot and is under load. A company importing a piece of junk bolt and carrier is not a design fault of the AR.

[tahunua001]

I'm just going off guestimation.

[amd6547]

The AR15 may not be an "assault rifle", but now, it an assault victim, it's reputation being assaulted due to the possible use of substandard parts.
When I built my AR, I used the cheapest stuff I could source...like a used Bushmaster "ban-era" upper with no threading for a flash hider or bayonet lug.
Yet, I made sure I ordered a top quality bolt and properly staked bolt carrier.
By the way, my AR, assembled with largely random parts, has worked perfectly, and can easily pick off a clay pigeon at 100yds using A1 iron sights.
I don't usually shoot steel case ammo, but I did have about 60rds of wolf that I shot up with no issues.
Shall we criticize Mercedes because the owner puts the cheapest retread tires on it?

[Art Eatman]

Looks like this iteration, the umpteenth, has pretty much run its course...