Fair Hunt or utterly unethical?

[jamesjems]

...So I've never shot any big game. My aging father gave me is 1969 Remington 700 with only 40 rounds through it, and I've been in Alaska now for three years. Wednesday, I went out for moose for the second time. In Healy. Here's how the situation unfolded. I know how I feel, but I don't know if this is "normal" for hunters to behave this way. Was this fair or crazy-unethical?

The Scenario:

Three vehicles went out: me in my truck and two ATVs. I had to park my truck down on the river bed and hitch a ride up the side of the canyon. On a mid-way promontory, we spotted a Spike-Fork bedded down about 600 yards away - too long for an ethical shot. We decided to go higher, around the top of the ridge line and work our way back down to the animal so as to cut the distance in half - or less.

We quietly rode higher (if that's possible with ATVs) and the animal didn't flinch or care in the least, and we stopped up high and started the stalk on foot. Since I was the newbie, who had never shot an animal, the other guys didn't hunt but let me have a go at it, which I thought was pretty cool.

As we set off, we heard the sound of another ATV coming up from the riverbed, and noticed that they went all the way up to the top and got out and looked around. We were now across the valley from them, but they saw us moving down towards our quarry. They were watching us on our hunt.

When we got about 80 yards from the animal, (our angle was weird: it was behind some shrubs) the animal got up and at that moment, a shot rang out from across the canyon, striking near us - the two guys saw how close we were getting and gut-shot the animal with an over 700 yard shot. They fired again and put the animal down.

I never had a chance to even take a shot.

I know how I feel.
Are all hunters like this? Is this the guiding principle here in Alaska? Would that fly where you live?

[Buzzcook]

No that wouldn't fly. I don't know of any ethical shooter that would fire their gun when other people were behind the intended target.

Stealing the game is beside the point.

[HiBC]

No,its not OK,and,you have a right to feel how you feel.

Unfortunately,on public land,you meet the public...the best and the worst.

The best,usually will have minimal impact on you.The worst,well,you know about that.

[globemaster3]

Huge foul! That's as wrong as.... Well that's just wrong!

I've only had minor issues on public land, that for the most part ended well with an apology from the offending party - no harm, no foul. But I've had friends who've hunted more remote places who've had game stolen, game shot out from under them (similar to you), etc.

Tough call on how to respond in that situation. Initial thoughts would involve setting the offending party straight in a firm way, BUT you are in the middle of nowhere with an armed offending party. If they lack the ethics to honor your stalk, what else might they do?

[kraigwy]

Please understand that there are idiots in all aspects of life. You apparently met one on this trip.

Don't judge all hunters based on this encounter. Most, a huge majority are gentleman and fair.

As to confrontation, it isn't worth it. Nothing good will come of it.

Just move on and enjoy your hunt.

Harvesting game, to me, isn't the best part of the hunt in a long shot. I hunt public lands. I run into all sorts of hunters. Most are friendly and honest. I love meeting other hunters, people from all aspects of life.

One of the pleasures I have is hooking up with these guys and conversing over a pot of boiled coffee. I volunteer every year to work our clubs sight in days, or the last two days before hunting season where we open our range to out of state hunters. I've met some great people helping them get set up to hunt our state.

[Kreyzhorse]

That's slob hunting plain and simple. Dangerous guys with guns too.

Most hunters are better than that but like in life, there are jerks everywhere. As Kraig said, move on, a confrontation won't result in any thing good. You'll find that 99% of other hunters are fair and you'll also enjoy the brotherhood that forms with hunters.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Easy come easy go. Honestly no animal is worth arguing over. You did nothing wrong that I could read. Did you wait at the kill site? {To see what the other shooter had to say.}

Are all hunters like this? Is this the guiding principle here in Alaska? Would that fly where you live?

1. I hope not.

2. Don't know. I've never hunted there.

3. Depends. On State owned land. Perhaps it happens quite often.

My Posted Land. With a stranger/s. "Well hello Mr. Sheriff's Deputy." {Especially since the Sheriff Deputy & family lives not more than two miles down the road from me. He's my neighbor.} I should be able to hear his New Dodge Hemi winding-up coming towards me too. That's comforting.

[Art Eatman]

Dangerously unethical and, fortunately, uncommon. This is the first time I've heard of that bad an example of nastiness. Many of us know of unethical behavior in hunting but nothing anywhere near this sort of unsane behavior.

[Spats McGee]

Unethical and dangerous. It's not worth confronting the shooter(s), but I'd decline any future opportunities to hunt with them.

[tahunua001]

what you experienced were a bunch are arseholes that shouldn't be allowed to hunt. if you were indeed that close to the animal there is no way that an experienced group of hunters that were able to spot the animal were also unable to spot you. I do not think long range shots are unethical, out here in Idaho, 4-600 yard shots are sometimes necessary for our rough country elk but if there was another hunter/s that I knew were on that hillside I would never take the shot and nobody I know of would.

[shortwave]

Dangerously unethical ....

Sums things up in a nutshell.

[Wild Bill Bucks]

If they were looking at you, there would be no reason for their actions. These are the low life's that give our sport a bad rap.

Confrontation is totally out of the question, because if they are crappy enough to do something like that, then they are probably crappy enough to do something worse.

[Pahoo]

Are all hunters like this? Is this the guiding principle here in Alaska? Would that fly where you live?

Well, I live in Iowa and the last Moose that was shot here, was abut 10yrs. ago but sadly it does happen during our deer seasons. No, not all hunters are like that but they do walk among us. ....

Be Safe !!!

[FrankenMauser]

Unfortunately,on public land,you meet the public...the best and the worst.

The best,usually will have minimal impact on you.The worst,well,you know about that.

That's exactly it.
The good hunters, you'll probably never notice or have to deal with in any way, unless they see you take something down and come to offer assistance in getting it out.

The bad hunters, though.... They're always doing something so flagrantly dangerous, unethical, illegal, and/or irritating, that you can't miss them.

[bswiv]

Assuming they saw you...........and it seems they did from the description......the fact of their firing not just ONE but TWO rounds off anywhere in your known direction is absolutely unacceptable.

I'd of have the game warden involved so fast it'd make their heads spin. Not that there is any hope that he could have done anything about it once he got there but at least their names would be on the radar screen.

Here in Fl. the FWC has firearms related incidents at the top of their pecking order as far as investigating them. Something that makes good sense to me.

Basically a disgusting event..................

[hogdogs]

but I'd decline any future opportunities to hunt with them.

I think he had a good guide and party as they let him have the hunt and let him get within an excellent shooting distance....

The offending hunt party intruded on their stalk... So maybe you misread that?

Brent

[North East Redneck]

To the OP- most hunters are ethical caring individuals who truly are out in the field to harvest game legally and safely. I've only been hunting for 20 years or so. But I think my experience in the field will reflect those of people who have hunted longer than I've been alive. The majority of hunters are good people. Personally, I've never encountered such actions as you describe. But, my old man did. It was in the '60s. He shot a deer on public land, after he fired and saw that he hit the deer, another shot was discharged. He says he heard the pellets rattling branches as they went through/fell back to earth. Either way the shot came after he hit the deer. When he went to find the shot deer a shotgun was leveled at him from behind a tree. A guy called out that it was his deer. Dad leveled his gun at the other guy and backed away. Then left the woods. A deer isn't worth your life. Sadly the old man has never been deer hunting again.
I wasn't there and was told second hand. But I believe it.
You did the right thing. Leave the area.

[Fisher]

No that wouldn't fly. I don't know of any ethical shooter that would fire their gun when other people were behind the intended target.

Stealing the game is beside the point.

What Buzzcock said !!!

[BoogieMan]

Im sorry you had an experience like that. What a POS to take a shot assuming that he knew you guys were in the line of fire. I once had a guy shoot from a moving boat at my deeks. I actually herd the shot bounce off our boat. People can be reel &^%% in all lines of life. 99% of the hunters I meet are great guys.

[HiBC]

Some of my best times and best memories have been around hunting,a lot of it on public land.
Don't forget your friendly local game warden is out there.I would not bother them with petty stuff,but if someone is over the edge...Mr Warden will likely take a dim view of it.Folks who operate on the wrong side of the line may have several things going on Mr Warden won't like,like,drinking,or loaded weapon in vehicle,or not tearing and signing the tag..no telling what a little inquiry might turn up.
I'm not an Alaskan,but by reputation,the Ak Game and Fish folks are not to be trifled with.
One year,I was on stand before light.About 9:30,an older fellow walked up the hill,within 15 yds of me,walked by,went another 50 yds toward where I expected the elk to come from,and sat down.
Exasperated,I moved off a hundred or so yds to another location.

Soon,I heard the old guy fire a few shots I eased that way,hoping for a chance.
I met up with him,he glared at me and asked "Where the hell did you come from"
I said "I was sitting right there when you walked over me this morning."

"No you weren't"

Anyway,the guy gut shot an elk with his .250 Savage,and it moved on.

The guy had his rifle in one hand by his side,and it kept pointing at me.I moved aside a couple of times,then said"I'd appreciate it if you'd quit pointing your rifle at me"

He says"Aww,it ain't loaded"

I'm pretty peaceful,and I do not hit old guys(I'm 60 now,this was some time ago) But I smelled my fuze burning,and I just left.

I unloaded my rifle in camp,put it away,said"I'm done"

I brandied up some coffee,and started cooking a pot of soup to greet my buddies with as they came in.

I felt a bit better,cooking soup.

Two yahoos drag a cow elk into my camp.drop it,tell me they are going for their truck.I ask "Is it tagged?"

"Uh,well...No."

I say"So,Mr Warden comes into my camp,and I tell him two guys just walked in and dropped an untagged cow in my camp?I do not think so!Tag it or keep dragging it"

Then,some of my party showed up.They said,they saw the oddest thing.A bunch of bloody snow,and no drag marks out.
They poked around,someone had shot a lion,then just buried it in snow under a log.

That was enough.I went and found a Warden.He checked it out and made a bust.

It took me a few years to try again.That camp cook thing ain't so bad.

[std7mag]

No it was not acceptable!! Nor was it "right"...
Sounds darn right dangerous, actually...

Alas, as all have said on here. Sorry you had to go through that, and public ground is public ground, no matter what creten goes on there.

Have had several run ins on public grounds.

[Paul B.]

"I'd of have the game warden involved so fast it'd make their heads spin."

This was about 8 or 9 years ago; my wife and I were elk hunting in the White Mountains of Arizona We were going up a road to get to where we wanted to hunt when my ife spotted elk disappearing into a stand of trees. I bailed out and while headed to where thy went was loading my rifle when these yahoos damn near run me over with their ATVs chasing the elk. I yells at them and got several one finger salutes from those worthy gentlemen. About a half minute later it soulds like Little Beirut with all the shots. My wife and I contunue on to where were had planned to be when we spot more elk. I get out and do a stalk and take the shot at a cow elk and drop her. I wait a couple of minutes, then go over and tag her. I then walk the mile back to the truck to get my wife to help me do the gutting and quartering. As we go back, there are two more worthy hunters who half cut my elk in half, tied it to their ATVs and are hauling their rear ends as fast as they can to get away. I find my torn up tag on the ground. Try as we might, there wasn't a game warden of cop to be found anywhere. I haven't hunted elk in Arizona since, partly because of that oncident and partly because I can't seem to draw a tag. These days, I just pay the price for a guided land owner hunt in New Mexico. Nobody there to shoot at me by mistake or steal my game.
Paul B.

[johnwilliamson062]

On public land it happens sometimes. I had a cousin who experienced a similar situation with a white tail. Problem was the other hunters couldn't shoot. After they reloaded a few times and still hadn't hit, god alone know why the deer didn't run away, he popped his head out from behind a tree and shot it.

[BigD_in_FL]

Husband of a coworker of mine is on his horse working cattle on the BLM land of northern NV. His horse has a blaze orange blanket on it and he was in blaze orange coveralls with a blaze orange hat and yes, someone shot his horse out from under him thinking they were shooting a deer. he held them at gunpoint until the sheriff and warden arrived whereupon their guns and truck were confiscated, they were charged with attempted murder and had to pay all sorts of fines and restitution.

If you really want to bring out these kind of idiots, have a casino sponsor a "big buck" contest. They had to stop when folks were shooting big deer, measuring them and when they weren't as big as the ones already entered, leaving them lay and going after another one.

Human greed and idiocy really amazes me sometimes

[FrankenMauser]

If you really want to bring out these kind of idiots, have a casino sponsor a "big buck" contest. They had to stop when folks were shooting big deer, measuring them and when they weren't as big as the ones already entered, leaving them lay and going after another one.

That's one of the primary reasons why ANY contest involving big game is illegal in Utah.

I'm very vocal about my disapproval of Utah's management methods and wildlife regulations; but the "no contests" regulation is one I support completely.