The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 26, 2012, 12:00 AM   #151
Shoot45's
Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2012
Posts: 72
"Would you trust your life to a 1911?"

Sure.
Have many times.
No problems.
In situations like that I prefer the 5".
Shoot45's is offline  
Old July 26, 2012, 12:22 AM   #152
LockedBreech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2009
Location: Rocky Mountain West
Posts: 3,395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoot45's View Post
"Would you trust your life to a 1911?"

Sure.
Have many times.
No problems.
In situations like that I prefer the 5".
I will say, if I did have to trust a 1911, it would be a 5" Fullsize of a quality make like Colt, Springfield, or Dan Wesson
LockedBreech is offline  
Old July 26, 2012, 08:13 AM   #153
ChrisJ715
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2011
Location: Small town in eastern KY
Posts: 155
Yes
ChrisJ715 is offline  
Old July 26, 2012, 09:12 AM   #154
jedi391
Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2004
Posts: 89
I would and I have (Wilson CQB) but not a production 1911 like a Kimber. It'd probably have to be a Wilson, Springfield, Ed Brown, or Les Baer (the true customs are out of my price range). Having said that I would take an HK (any of them), S&W (M&P), pre-2005 Sig P series, Beretta 92 series, or a 3rd generation or older Glock 17 before I took the 1911.
jedi391 is offline  
Old July 26, 2012, 10:23 AM   #155
Striker1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 710
Quote:
That's true, but if you took 15 Glocks and 15 1911s (let's say $1,000 models, so 2x a Glock's cost) and put them on the firing line all day, which is more likely to jam/feed wrong, etc?

Actually I was referring specifically to the training required to operate any gun but since you brought it up, let's consider that all Glocks are made by Glock, while "1911" is a generic term identifying many pistols made by many companies. The actual 1911A1 was a combat pistol that was designed to operate in combat conditions...seems to have worked fine until people started trying to monkey with the design. It amazes me how suddenly the legendary reliability of the 1911 is thrown out the window.

I would also throw in that your idea about the Glocks firing all day without a problem may not be so true with the arrival of the new Gen 4 models.



It's true that the 1911 has a lovely trigger, and shoots like a beauty, but shootability is second to a single thing in a combat firearm: dead nuts reliability.

Do you practice stoppage drills with a Glock?

Even the most well-maintained 1911 still has way more parts to have issues with. Safeties (grip and manual), springs, bushing, guide rod (two pieces if G.I.), etc. A Glock or other combat polymer has four - frame rails. slide, barrel, recoil spring assembly.

There's just more to go wrong on the excellent (but old) 1911.

I've never compared, so what is the parts count on a Glock vs a 1911?

I'd happily be corrected by any who disagree with me. I truly enjoy modern pistols and 1911s both, so I welcome a healthy debate to give me more stuff to consider.
The 1911A1 is my favorite pistol and has been for as long as I can remember, but I also have a Gen 3 G19 which I like very much and shoot often.
Striker1 is offline  
Old July 27, 2012, 02:42 AM   #156
.45 CAL
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2011
Posts: 8
My Springfield M1911-A1 Mil-Spec has never let me down. Flawlessly operating over 4K rounds and still a shooter. I wouldn't and haven’t hesitated grabbing it on the way out the door.
.45 CAL is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 10:14 AM   #157
745SW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2011
Location: California
Posts: 776
IMO the Hi-Power is a vast improvement over the 1911 in terms of reliability. The locked breach design mechanics of the Hi-Power lives on in Sig’s, S&W’s, Walther P88 and later models, HK’s, Glock’s, Ruger’s, Springfield XD series and others.

Plunger tube and magazine floor-plate of the 1911 are known specific components that are weak points. No further evaluation is needed.

The two components of issue is the bushing and two-piece ramp.

Any and all bushings regardless of application cause stiction (friction, resistance to move). This causes some of the force of the recoiling slide to transfer to the frame early, exasperating limp-wristing. The no bushing design of the Hi-Power eliminates most of this stiction by having the barrel rest at the 6 o-clock position within the channel of the slide. Downward force at the muzzle is from the barrel hood against the breach face combined with the recoil spring.

The two-piece ramp in and of itself is not a problem. Example would be all Walther locking type designs have a two-piece ramp. But because the barrel of the 1911 tilts during it’s unlocking/locking of the breach, unlike the Walther, the low mass of the barrel at the chamber of the 1911 gives too fast of a lock-time. The Hi-Power solves this issue by making the entire ramp at/near the chamber of the barrel increasing its mass thus slowing the lock-time.

Another example of too fast lock-time. It’s well known the M4(carbine) version of the AR has a fast cycle rate and consequently fast lock-time that can cause reliability issues in the form of jams because of this fast cycle rate. Comparatively the slower cycle rate of the full size AR(20”) has fewer issues and suffers less from bolt breakage.

I have my vest and Lexan (bullet proof clear plastic) shield. No rocks or beer bottles please.
745SW is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 10:51 AM   #158
jimjc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2010
Posts: 166
The 1911 has been around for 100 yrs....It is trustworthy if you spend the money it takes to make it trustworthy and spend the money... as the round count increases.... gunsmithing and replacing parts....

The evolution of the 1911 has made it a much tighter gun and in doing so has made it susceptible to some failures...You can make them better but it will cost money...Look at the Browns...Wilsons...Nighthawks et. etc.

More modern guns like the HK USP has answered some the shortcomings the 1911 had...I always liked all my 1911`s and have shot probably 50,000 rounds through them but have moved on to the HK... it`s a far superior weapon...Yes it`s a expensive gun but to get the 1911 anywhere close to the build quality or reliability you would have to spend 2 1/2 times what it costs. Of coarse there are others but few as reliable as the HK USP....My 0.02...Jim
jimjc is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 01:04 PM   #159
johnbt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 1999
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Posts: 6,004
"if you took 15 Glocks and 15 1911s (let's say $1,000 models, so 2x a Glock's cost) and put them on the firing line all day, which is more likely to jam/feed wrong, etc?"

Which 1911? A Colt? A Kimber? A Wilson? A 100-year-old 1911 or a handmade one?

Okay, we will take 15 different maker's guns and you can pick the Glock model. Here's my question...

1911 or Glock, which one will be the first to kaBoom or have an out of battery discharge?

Would I trust my life to a 1911? Certainly, there's no reason not to.
johnbt is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 01:09 PM   #160
johnbt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 1999
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Posts: 6,004
"IMO the Hi-Power is a vast improvement over the 1911 in terms of reliability."

Even if you are correct about one or more of your points, it's still not a .45, is it? Apple, meet orange.
johnbt is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 04:36 PM   #161
jimjc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2010
Posts: 166
Whether one trusts their life to hand gun depends on where they are...If I`m in my house I`m not trusting my life to a hand gun I`ll be using a shotgun period...of coarse I still have a handgun available but the shotgun is it....

Out and about of coarse I would use a handgun but I wouldn`t use a 1911...My HK USP is far more reliable than any 1911 I`ve ever owned and I`ve had quite a few...Jim
jimjc is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 06:58 PM   #162
10mmAuto
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2010
Posts: 598
Quote:
"IMO the Hi-Power is a vast improvement over the 1911 in terms of reliability."

Even if you are correct about one or more of your points, it's still not a .45, is it? Apple, meet orange.
Because the capabilities of 9mm and .45 are so divergent that comparing two steel, hammered fired automatics by the same designer is pointless because one is (typically) 9mm and the other (typically) .45? Cool story bro. The internet's got some ballistics analysis and after action reviews of shootings you should check out.

Unless you're handgun hunting larger game or limited to ball ammunition for self defense use, the difference if any is not appreciable and is pretty well documented. If you're a member of the cult of .45, though, no empirical or subjective evidence will convince you of anything.
10mmAuto is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 08:32 PM   #163
JC57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Posts: 375
I used to have a Colt Combat Commander in satin nickel that I bought around 1979. I never carried it (couldn't back then) but it was a reliable shooter and I could hit a target just fine with it.

So sure, I don't see why not. My other option in those days was a .38 revolver which I in fact did have to trust my life with, so I would think that 8 rounds of .45 would trump 6 rounds of .38.
JC57 is offline  
Old August 6, 2012, 09:14 PM   #164
ROGER4314
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2009
Location: East Houston
Posts: 257
I've heard it said that too much Internet/computer use makes people a bit crazy and poorly socialized. When I see stuff like this 1911 reliability issue, I begin to see some wisdom in that. (No offense intended to the OP)

In my early days, I hunted small game with a 1911. I carried in a Safari land holster and carried on the safety notch with a loaded chamber. Now, I find that carrying a 1911 that way will cause the sun to extinguish and the universe to collapse. That's just garbage!

I still have the first of dozens of 1911's that I've owned since 1968 and I don't remember EVER having a malfunction with that pistol! I also shot that pistol in competition and it's reliable as a rock. When I took my CHL test and later my renewal test, that 1911 was there.

I'm older and wiser and probably wouldn't carry on the safety notch now, but I carried like that for YEARS over fences, across streams and gullies. I tromped brush piles and brambles and never had a mishap. Now we're talking about the 1911 being unsafe and unreliable!

Sometimes I just hate the Internet.

Flash

Last edited by ROGER4314; August 6, 2012 at 09:30 PM.
ROGER4314 is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 02:33 AM   #165
DunRanull
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 24, 2005
Location: Southern Colorado, where a small working knowledge of southwestern Hispanic culture is considered polite.
Posts: 99
I have trusted my life- and my family- to the JMB designs for many years. Including camping and hiking in the mountains. 1911, 1911-A1, Combat Commander, BHP. Some in .45acp, some in 9mmP. If forced to choose I'd go with the Colt Combat Commander. Bone-stock if need be, slightly higher fixed sights, by preference. I still mourn my first, an electro-nickel Colt CC... foolishly traded for whatever back when.

Last edited by DunRanull; August 9, 2012 at 08:41 PM.
DunRanull is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 08:03 AM   #166
buckhorn_cortez
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2010
Posts: 857
"...exasperating limp-wristing."

Limp wristing certainly is exasperating - but not limited to the 1911...if you're going to attempt to impress us with 5 syllable words, you might want to get the correct one...
buckhorn_cortez is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 04:00 PM   #167
745SW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2011
Location: California
Posts: 776
“Even if you are correct about one or more of your points, it's still not a .45, is it? Apple, meet orange.”

Yes most if not all the non-1911 45ACP pistols from the various makers appear not to be made anymore. The OP may have a point about the 1911 being largely only a range gun, everyone I personally know of that have 45’s, including myself, do not keep them loaded. My S&W 66 (revolver) is usually loaded and my Walther P5 and Glock 19C sometimes. Should this be true for most it would mean reliability would not be much of an issue for pistols chambered in 45ACP and the need for alternative designs to the 1911 such as the Hi-Power would not be desired or needed.

I work many of the larger gun shows in the state and a few out of state so I will try asking those interested in accessories for their 45 auto, regardless of make or kind, if they keep it loaded.

Last edited by 745SW; August 7, 2012 at 04:31 PM.
745SW is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 04:28 PM   #168
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,429
We're still with this?

lol...okay, guys who trust the 1911 (like myself) = carry it.

Guys who don't, don't carry it. Can't we all just get along?
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 04:30 PM   #169
rem44m
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 171
I think the true answer is yes I would trust my life with the right 1911. The platform does not matter as much as the individual gun with your specific ammo.
__________________
I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

"If gun owners are as violent as anti-gunners said we are, there wouldn't be any anti's left"
rem44m is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 06:52 PM   #170
tex45acp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2005
Location: The Great State of Texas
Posts: 1,032
I have for over 3 decades and it has never failed me in 10's of thousands of rounds. I have shot them in competition, formal & informal, qualified with a perfect score on my Texas Concealed Handgun License 4 times and used them for small game & varmint hunting with great success. I have carried a 4" concealed IWB for 2 decades........Absolutely!!!
__________________
“All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.“
tex45acp is offline  
Old August 7, 2012, 10:46 PM   #171
10mmAuto
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2010
Posts: 598
Quote:
I have for over 3 decades and it has never failed me in 10's of thousands of rounds.
You must mean some kind of major parts breakage or failure. I don't believe for a second you've never experienced a stoppage with that round count - with any weapon. It's possible, but the probability of you never having experienced one is incredibly low.

As a side note and reply to OP, 1911s can be plenty reliable but require a lot more time, money and smithing than a modern polymer weapon. No reason not to trust your life to one, but if you did it out of the box or without regular preventative maintenance it's a bad idea.
10mmAuto is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 01:32 AM   #172
magmax
Member
 
Join Date: July 17, 2012
Posts: 51
I would trust my life to MY Colt 1911. I've been shooting Colt 1911s since the late 60s. Had several Colt Gold Cups and have fired 10s of thousands of rounds. The sights would shoot loose after a few thousand rounds, but that was a given.
This Colt "Silver Star' was one of the first one thousand stainless guns produced by Colt & was meant to be a display/collector gun [came in a nice wooden box]. Replaced the sights [dovetailed in], and sent the gun to Jim Strop down in Georgia for trigger job & reliability package. In the 10+ years since, it has never failed to function 100%. It is special-it works-and it is mine.
David

magmax is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 06:48 AM   #173
akguy1985
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2012
Location: Claremore, Oklahoma
Posts: 179
yeah i would. i've owned a couple RIA 1911's.
__________________
Marksman of the mezzanine
akguy1985 is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 01:31 PM   #174
Hunter Customs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2005
Location: Osborn, Missouri
Posts: 2,697
magmax,

Nice looking Colt, great looking gun. It has everything you need and not a lot of gismos and dodads you don't need.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
Hunter Customs is offline  
Old August 8, 2012, 01:32 PM   #175
TimW77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 21, 2008
Posts: 485
Would you trust your life to a 1911?

Anyone with REAL experience knows, only on the internet would you find something so silly!

What is worse is that this BS just goes on and on and on...

T.
TimW77 is offline  
Reply

Tags
.45 , 1911 , carry , gun , shoot

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08381 seconds with 8 queries