Kirst backplate permanent?

philthephlier · December 22, 2011, 01:20 PM

Can a Kirst backplate become permanent on an 1858 Rem.? If so, is there a thread describing the process?

marwin95 · December 23, 2011, 11:44 AM

I am interested to see what you received in the way of answers. I have acouple of black powder revolvers that I am considering the addition of a Kirst, or one of the other similar units.

Hawg · December 23, 2011, 12:47 PM

Semi permanent. From what I understand the recoil shield is drilled and tapped.

hoof hearted · December 23, 2011, 07:02 PM

Phil

I am the Kirst installer.......
The Kirst is a drop in (nothing is drilled and tapped as suggested in the above reply).

You could drill and tap the frame and sountersink a corresponding hole in the Converter ring in the same place that Remington and the various armoury's did in their conversion process (although in the three types done then the plate, which was very thin compared to the Kirst ring, was also dovetailed into the recoil shield). Dovetailing the Kirst is not an option as it is already smaller than the frame window. This whole process is problematic as you have to clear the side of the frame and should also screw the barrel out for access.

Kirst/Strite has made a run of parts to do "thin plate" conversions and they have to be done in house but if this interests you let me know!

HH

Hawg · December 23, 2011, 08:14 PM

Not the first time I've been wrong. Somebody was selling one awhile back that was installed with screws is where I got it from.

hoof hearted · December 23, 2011, 08:45 PM

Hawg

I did not mean to make you out to be "wrong" only that the Kirst is not attached that way (although R&D does market a "screw" in Colt version).

I remember seeing that thread about, I believe, a "semi permanent" Kirst for sale also.

HH

Hawg · December 23, 2011, 09:19 PM

Well I was wrong.

hoof hearted · December 23, 2011, 10:40 PM

Well yer all RIGHT in my book

Hawg · December 24, 2011, 02:02 AM

You're alright in mine too HH, even tho we do seem to be at odds at times. Personality clash I guess.

rodent.22 · December 24, 2011, 08:56 AM

The Kirst backing plate/loading gate is a slide-in fit, a quite snug, well fitting plate. The cylinder sets in front all held in line by the barrel and wedge. The purpose of attaching the backing plate with screws escapes me. It seems a solution for no problem. After all, cutting the loading channel removes a lot of the recoil shield. Drilling and tapping what metal is left doesn't seem too wise. IMHO.....

philthephlier · December 25, 2011, 01:55 PM

The Kirst backing plate/loading gate is a slide-in fit, a quite snug, well fitting plate. The cylinder sets in front all held in line by the barrel and wedge. The purpose of attaching the backing plate with screws escapes me. It seems a solution for no problem. After all, cutting the loading channel removes a lot of the recoil shield. Drilling and tapping what metal is left doesn't seem too wise. IMHO.....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg dragoon conversion 013.jpg (197.4 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg dragoon conversion 017.jpg (178.2 KB, 12 views)

This discussion is about the 1858 Rem. revolver.

hoof hearted · December 25, 2011, 07:53 PM

After all, cutting the loading channel removes a lot of the recoil shield. Drilling and tapping what metal is left doesn't seem too wise. IMHO.....

Yes well, no.......Colt ported the recoil shield in all of their conversions as well as also milling the face back on the Richards type 1.

rodent.22 · December 26, 2011, 06:37 AM

SO SORRY!

Missed that....old eyes, toasted brain.

December 22, 2011, 01:20 PM	#1
philthephlier Member Join Date: May 12, 2009 Posts: 56	Kirst backplate permanent? Can a Kirst backplate become permanent on an 1858 Rem.? If so, is there a thread describing the process? __________________ GRACE Gifts Received At Christ's Expense

December 23, 2011, 08:45 PM	#6
hoof hearted Member Join Date: December 21, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 61	Hawg I did not mean to make you out to be "wrong" only that the Kirst is not attached that way (although R&D does market a "screw" in Colt version). I remember seeing that thread about, I believe, a "semi permanent" Kirst for sale also. HH Last edited by hoof hearted; December 23, 2011 at 10:39 PM.

December 24, 2011, 08:56 AM	#10
rodent.22 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2010 Location: virginia woods Posts: 129	The Kirst backing plate/loading gate is a slide-in fit, a quite snug, well fitting plate. The cylinder sets in front all held in line by the barrel and wedge. The purpose of attaching the backing plate with screws escapes me. It seems a solution for no problem. After all, cutting the loading channel removes a lot of the recoil shield. Drilling and tapping what metal is left doesn't seem too wise. IMHO..... __________________ NRA, VCDL, USAF 1970-76 6200FMS CLARK FIELD,P.I.'71-'72- 18 SOS, NKP, THAILAND '72, BASE FLIGHT,KEESLER AFB,MISS '72-'74, CARSWELL AFB,TX '74-'76 Last edited by rodent.22; December 2, 2014 at 12:52 PM.

December 25, 2011, 01:55 PM	#11
philthephlier Member Join Date: May 12, 2009 Posts: 56	Wrong revolver The Kirst backing plate/loading gate is a slide-in fit, a quite snug, well fitting plate. The cylinder sets in front all held in line by the barrel and wedge. The purpose of attaching the backing plate with screws escapes me. It seems a solution for no problem. After all, cutting the loading channel removes a lot of the recoil shield. Drilling and tapping what metal is left doesn't seem too wise. IMHO..... Attached Images File Type: jpg dragoon conversion 013.jpg (197.4 KB, 16 views) File Type: jpg dragoon conversion 017.jpg (178.2 KB, 12 views) This discussion is about the 1858 Rem. revolver. __________________ GRACE Gifts Received At Christ's Expense

December 26, 2011, 06:37 AM	#13
rodent.22 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2010 Location: virginia woods Posts: 129	SO SORRY! Missed that....old eyes, toasted brain. __________________ NRA, VCDL, USAF 1970-76 6200FMS CLARK FIELD,P.I.'71-'72- 18 SOS, NKP, THAILAND '72, BASE FLIGHT,KEESLER AFB,MISS '72-'74, CARSWELL AFB,TX '74-'76

December 23, 2011, 11:44 AM	#2
marwin95 Junior Member Join Date: December 17, 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 1	I am interested to see what you received in the way of answers. I have acouple of black powder revolvers that I am considering the addition of a Kirst, or one of the other similar units.

December 23, 2011, 12:47 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Semi permanent. From what I understand the recoil shield is drilled and tapped.

December 23, 2011, 07:02 PM	#4
hoof hearted Member Join Date: December 21, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 61	Phil I am the Kirst installer....... The Kirst is a drop in (nothing is drilled and tapped as suggested in the above reply). You could drill and tap the frame and sountersink a corresponding hole in the Converter ring in the same place that Remington and the various armoury's did in their conversion process (although in the three types done then the plate, which was very thin compared to the Kirst ring, was also dovetailed into the recoil shield). Dovetailing the Kirst is not an option as it is already smaller than the frame window. This whole process is problematic as you have to clear the side of the frame and should also screw the barrel out for access. Kirst/Strite has made a run of parts to do "thin plate" conversions and they have to be done in house but if this interests you let me know! HH

December 23, 2011, 08:14 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Not the first time I've been wrong. Somebody was selling one awhile back that was installed with screws is where I got it from.

December 23, 2011, 09:19 PM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Well I was wrong.

December 23, 2011, 10:40 PM	#8
hoof hearted Member Join Date: December 21, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 61	Well yer all RIGHT in my book

December 24, 2011, 02:02 AM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	You're alright in mine too HH, even tho we do seem to be at odds at times. Personality clash I guess.

December 25, 2011, 07:53 PM	#12
hoof hearted Member Join Date: December 21, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 61	After all, cutting the loading channel removes a lot of the recoil shield. Drilling and tapping what metal is left doesn't seem too wise. IMHO..... Yes well, no.......Colt ported the recoil shield in all of their conversions as well as also milling the face back on the Richards type 1.