Saiga 12 or 930 SPX

[BudW]

For HD which would you choose between these two?

[rottieman33]

Saiga 12 cause I own one and its a great gun

[kx592]

the 930 has become more and more popular for any load, #8 to slugs will take what ever you want it to. Semi auto would be great for HD but I still would take a pump, as of now.

[seansean1444]

siaga.... i think the ability to switch mags unlike other shotguns is invaluable

[TheKlawMan]

The Saiga 12 definitely has its place if you wan't a true combat shotgun and especially if you aren't in California. I don't understand all the regulatioins federal and state but in California you can't have a "detachable" magazine exactly. You have to need a tool to change one which means a "bullet button". I guess its faster than loading a tube but not as fast as a regular magaizine. For HD I am satisfied with a Remington but the Saiga looks like it would be fun to shoot.

[rottieman33]

They also make 20 Round drums for them to

[Technosavant]

i think the ability to switch mags unlike other shotguns is invaluable

It's less valuable than you think. If the bolt isn't locked back, insertion is a deliberate and slow effort. It's REAL easy to not get it latched on there properly. Standard HD scenarios don't usually involve mag changes anyway; topping off a tube mag is just as fast and probably easier than swapping a mag on a S12 with a closed bolt.

The S12 can be a good gun, but quality can be uneven, as can the reliability (it's generally reliable, but the more absolute reliability of the AK platform doesn't really transfer to the shotgun variants).

IMO, there probably isn't enough difference between the Mossberg and the Saiga to get all bent out of shape over.

[rjrivero]

Originally Posted by Technosavant

If the bolt isn't locked back, insertion is a deliberate and slow effort. It's REAL easy to not get it latched on there properly.

If you "shape" the bolt, you can easily slide a magazine home on a closed bolt. And if you add a mag well, mag changes are SUPER FAST.

I'm whipping one into shape for 3 gun, and it's MUCH faster than I can manage with my benelli M1, unless I'm using a bucket full of speed sticks.

[jmortimer]

The 930 is as reliable as a semi-auto shotgun gets. I see no reason to get a saiga as it is not as reliable as a semi-auto shotgun gets. The tube magazine is verasitle as you can insert a specific load or reload on the go. If you as into games like three gun or whatever then the saiga may be the way to go but not if your life depends on it.

[ATW525]

For home defense, where I might have to shoot somebody? The one that doesn't look like an AK-47 with the biggest bore the jury has ever seen.

[chris in va]

If you're thinking of a Saiga, get one soon. The factory has halted manufacture.

[10mmAuto]

Personally, I think the tube magazine is better. Tactical reloads are simple and efficient and the weapon itself stays slim and easy to wield.

[rottieman33]

Specs for both guns

Mossberg 930 SPX
Caliber: 12 gauge (2.75” and 3”)
Barrel: 18.5” Cylinder bore
Sights: Fiber optic front, ghost ring rear
Finish: Matte black
Overall Length: 39”
Overall Weight: 7.5 lbs
Action: Gas-operated, semi-automatic
Capacity: 7+1 (with 2.75” shells) 6+1 (with 3” shells)
Cost: $600


Saiga 12
Caliber - 12 Gauge (2.75” and 3”)
Capacity – 5, 8, 10, and 12 Round Detachable Box Magazine or 10, 12, 20 round drum
Action - Gas-operated semi-automatic

Total Length: 38 1/2 in.
Barrel Length: 19 in.
Weight without Magazine: 6.85 lbs.
Cost $675

[Technosavant]

If you "shape" the bolt, you can easily slide a magazine home on a closed bolt. And if you add a mag well, mag changes are SUPER FAST.

Yeah, IF you do those things. Not everybody wants to muck about with them all that much. Shaping the bolt can leave you with a useless shotgun if done poorly. I've done the shoulder stock/PG conversion on mine, and it was easy enough, but at some point you have to ask yourself just how much time and parts you want to throw at the thing, because at the end of it, you have something that throws lead shot just like any other shotgun.

I just can't give a flat recommendation to the S12 for any and every purpose like rottieman tends to do; unless an owner is willing to put in a fair amount of time and money, it just isn't head and shoulders above competing shotguns of a more traditional design. If you are willing, well, yay, but you aren't going to be doing things that much better than the guy with the 1100 Tactical, FN SLP, or 930 SPX.

[Stevie-Ray]

The 930 SPX, because it's what I have. I must say I'd love to have the S12 though.

[BAD_KARMA]

I'm with Technosavant on this. I have a 930 and a s12. the 930 is more reliable. the s-12 quality is spotty. mine runs fine, it does sometimes duff a promo load. My buddies we had to re-drill gas ports and unscrew the op-rod to spec length. my 930 has digested everything from 7/8 oz. and the cheapest promo loads without a hiccup.

Mag changes in a stock s12 are not as fast as you would think.

Really the only complaint I have about the 930 is it needs to be 3/4 pound lighter then it would be perfect. But on the range the 3/4 lb. really makes it nice to shoot all day.

[jaguarxk120]

Go with the Mossberg 930 --- it's made in the states support American workers.

[GONIF]

Saiga 12 all the way ,I have 2 that I moded and you can not make either jam of stop with any kind of ammo. 100% relieable . Glad I got mine when the price ( I paid $400.00 each ) and availability was right .

[rjrivero]

Originally Posted by Technosavant

Yeah, IF you do those things. Not everybody wants to muck about with them all that much. Shaping the bolt can leave you with a useless shotgun if done poorly. I've done the shoulder stock/PG conversion on mine, and it was easy enough, but at some point you have to ask yourself just how much time and parts you want to throw at the thing, because at the end of it, you have something that throws lead shot just like any other shotgun.

I just can't give a flat recommendation to the S12 for any and every purpose like rottieman tends to do; unless an owner is willing to put in a fair amount of time and money, it just isn't head and shoulders above competing shotguns of a more traditional design. If you are willing, well, yay, but you aren't going to be doing things that much better than the guy with the 1100 Tactical, FN SLP, or 930 SPX.

I agree completely. The Saiga-12 is a "starter" project as it comes from Izmash. If you want one that is reliable, you need to be willing to do modify it yourself, or have it modified by one of the custom houses.

If you're the kind who doesn't mind working over your own gun, the reward is that your Saiga-12, once well tuned, is a FUN GUN to shoot!!

[rottieman33]

I agree completely. The Saiga-12 is a "starter" project as it comes from Izmash. If you want one that is reliable, you need to be willing to do modify it yourself, or have it modified by one of the custom houses.

My Saiga 12 is bone stock and I can fire anything threw it with no stove pipes or failure to feed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzIpjYRSH-s
this is me shooting 45 rounds of 12ga not 1 hiccup.

[nefprotector]

930 SPX

[Technosavant]

My Saiga 12 is bone stock and I can fire anything threw it with no stove pipes or failure to feed.

That's great. Unfortunately, it's a known fact that the quality control on the Saiga 12 is uneven. Most are just fine. Some can be temperamental (although word has it a break in of 100 slugs or so will wear them in right nice). Some are referred to as "vodka specials."

IMO, the S12 is a gun for the enthusiast; someone who wants something cool, but understands that it may be temperamental and require some fiddling to make it work right. There's other shotguns that are far more likely to work great right from the box.

[jmortimer]

+1 FN SLP or Benelli M2 or M4 or Mossberg 930. All will go bang for 200,000 rounds or more with routine or even less than routine cleaning and maintainence out of the box. You don't have to "modify" ("fix") the top tier guns.