weapon improvements

[Bezoar]

here is the thing. nowadays unless you buy the most expensive item your not going to be loved.

Look at the new switch barrel rifle. So far only a few companies make them. and you have to stay with one bolt head so you have limited calibers. if you want a .308 winchester you only get a second barrel in .243 winchester.

if you like 30-06 your stuck with calibers based on that case head.



so if you could spend less on the initial gun, and have the ability to swap to a whole spectrum of cartridges would you buy it? i mean.

your 30-06 becomes a .243 winchester on monday, that on wednesday becomes a 22 hornet because you want your nephew or neice to do woodchuck hunt. and then on wednesday night becomes a .223 varmint barreled gun.

[RBid]

I wouldn't, but I sold enough Sig 250s to get that there's a market. I would expect most buyers to never actually swap barrels. People talk about this kind of feature more than they use it.

[dakota.potts]

If I had a rifle that could easily swap between .22lr, .223, and .308, an the transformation was cheap and easy, I would do it. .22lr for practice, .223 for longer ranging target shooting, and .308 for rare competition/long range shots, but also for extra power.... you know, in case SHTF

Also, going from a .22 to a .308 would seem to allow you to hunt everything from a dove to deer, so that seems to be a very good benefit of swapping those rounds so easily.

[FrankenMauser]

Look at the new switch barrel rifle. So far only a few companies make them. and you have to stay with one bolt head so you have limited calibers. if you want a .308 winchester you only get a second barrel in .243 winchester.

TC attempted to address that with the Dimension:
TC Dimension

And the Encore:
TC Encore



But, what happens if you want to use both your .22 Hornet and your .30-06 at the same time? You're screwed.

Personally... I just buy another rifle.

[SIGSHR]

The switch barrel rifle seems to be one of those things-like the multi-cartridge revolver-that people say "Why don't they make?" Then somebody does-and too few people buy it to make it worthwhile.
Let's see-if you have a rifle-the SIG SHR 970, e.g.-with a bolt head for say 30/06, that limits you to 308, .243 Winchester, 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, 35 Whelen, 358 Winchester and probably some others. Switching from centerfire to rimfire would probably require a separate bolt and magazines. I am not a hunter nor do I play one on the Internet,IMHO the 243 Winchester would do nicely in place of the .223.

[jmr40]

The most common standard chamberings from 243-35 Whelen use the same bolt faces so in one way it would be pretty easy to have at least a dozen barrels that would work with the same bolt. 243, 260, 7-08, 308, 338 fed, 25-06, 270, 280, 30-06, 338-06, 9.3X62 and 35 Whelen. Not counting several wildcats and I probably left out a few. Not sure about 7X57 and 358 Win. but think they would work too. It could be built on a long action with a different mag for short actions. Would cover a lot of bases.

But the problem is that if you could pick any 2 and cover any real hunting need in North America. In fact either of the 2 sitting exactly in the middle, 270 and 30-06, will actually accomplish anything a 243 or 35 Whelen will do in 1 rifle. There is a reason they are the most common chamberings

Another problem I see is that there are so many good budget rifles right now. A fellow could pick 3-4 budget rifles in 3-4 chamberings made by Savage, Ruger, Marlin of several others for less money than having 1 rifle with multiple barrels.

Having multiple barrels on 1 receiver would also mean readjusting the scope every time you change barrels.

If someone could come up with a reasonably priced system, that actually worked, maybe. The TC might be the best current solution, but I just don't like the rifle.

[Bezoar]

Well I dont have any actual prototypes at the moment, but i can say this much.

my simplist design for a repeating, magazine fed bolt action. Would be about the same difficult and complexity as swapping uppers on an AR 15.

my design for a pump action gun, would be as tricky as as changing cylinders on a percussion revolver of colt or remington design.

And as far as rezeroing, Im a fan of iron military sights. And there are many companies that sell quick switch scope systems. Not very complicated to adapt.

Ive got to many ideas. Just dont have the money.

[SamNavy]

If I had a rifle that could easily swap between .22lr, .223, and .308, an the transformation was cheap and easy, I would do it. .22lr for practice, .223 for longer ranging target shooting, and .308 for rare competition/long range shots, but also for extra power.... you know, in case SHTF

Also, going from a .22 to a .308 would seem to allow you to hunt everything from a dove to deer, so that seems to be a very good benefit of swapping those rounds so easily.

You mean like an AR15?
Your basic everyday .223/5.56 converts to .22lr in about 15 seconds with a drop in conversion... and can be converted to fire 300BLK in even less time with an upper swap, or in about 1/2 hour at home on your workbench with a barrel swap. 300BLK uses the same bullets as .308 albeit with less powder... but still more than capable for hunting up to deer-size and any SHTF scenario.

[g.willikers]

There's probably quite a few people who would be interested in such an arrangement -and in reducing the work load of those folks who have to deal with all those 4473s.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by jmr40

Another problem I see is that there are so many good budget rifles right now. A fellow could pick 3-4 budget rifles in 3-4 chamberings made by Savage, Ruger, Marlin of several others for less money than having 1 rifle with multiple barrels.

IMHO this hits the nail on the head.

A switch-barrel rifle setup adds manufacturing steps and complexity. This adds cost, making such rifles less attractive compared to buying an additional rifle for each cartridge.

Originally Posted by g.willikers

...reducing the work load of those folks who have to deal with all those 4473s.

I'd actually argue the contrary, the Form 4473 and the NICS check aren't that much of a headache.* They certainly don't seem to have put much of a damper on recent firearms sales!

OTOH the sales potential of this idea is probably much greater in Europe, where buyers generally face far more red tape than American buyers, even those in relatively restrictive states. (Notably, restrictive US states may require firearms permits or licenses that aren't needed elsewhere, but these licenses and permits don't generally limit the number of bolt rifles that may be purchased.) The increased red tape largely explains the relatively greater popularity of combination guns and drillings in Europe. It's also the reason why the SIG P250 was designed with frames and barrels that interchange around a single serial-numbered trigger group, allowing shooters to use the pistol in several configurations while legally owning only a single "firearm".

*Please note that I'm NOT advocating the continuation of NICS or the Form 4473 from a Constitutional or individual rights standpoint; I'm merely pointing out that they're evidently not inconvenient enough to noticeably hamper overall new gun sales.

[dakota.potts]

SamNavy, I have wanted an AR 15 for that reason, but cheap was one of my requirements For instance, the CZ 452 which has a .22lr and .17 HMR barrel for a total of $450. An AR 15 will run about $800 near the bottom of the line and $300 or more per upper. Not to say I wouldn't invest in one at some point, but if there were some magic invention that allowed us to only swap out barrels rather than entire uppers for a cost of, say, $100 each I would be incredibly interested.

[45_auto]

but if there were some magic invention that allowed us to only swap out barrels rather than entire uppers for a cost of, say, $100 each I would be incredibly interested.

Get you an H&R Handi-Rifle and all the rifle switch barrels you want from .22 to .45-70 for just over $100 each. Shotgun barrels for it are even cheaper. See the list of available barrels at the link below:

http://www.hr1871.com/support/accessoryprogram.asp

[johnwilliamson062]

The problem is most people who want to shoot ten different calibers want to do it with good optics or sights. By the time you get both barrel and optics the price seems silly stupid close to a stand alone gun.
Even with the H&R. You pay $125 for the barrel the $200 or more for optics. You have $325 in an upper. For about $500 you can do that on a standalone Ruger American repeater that is better quality.

It also seems that any optic left attached to a barrel only get banged around ten times as much as one attached to an entire rifle.

[lcpiper]

Generally, I'd rather just have another gun.

[Bezoar]

a new barrel does make it another gun.

perhaps thats the real problem...... no one wants to utilize one reciever with many calibers unless its an AR with the latest quais tacticool caliber

[carguychris]

a new barrel does make it another gun.

Not quite; in the USA, Canada, and most European countries, when considering most modern (post-1900) bolt rifles, the regulated and serial numbered component- the part that's legally considered to be the "firearm"- is the receiver.

Since the chamber of most bolt rifles is within the barrel, and the barrel usually isn't the regulated and serial numbered part, the owner can generally change chamberings while still retaining the same rifle from a legal standpoint.

...no one wants to utilize one reciever with many calibers unless its an AR with the latest quais tacticool caliber

In the UK and Europe, some shooters might. In some jurisdictions over there, a potential rifle purchase is subject to stifling red tape, even if the shooter already owns one or more firearms.

OTOH as I stated in my earlier post, this generally isn't a concern in the USA, and AFAIK it's not generally a concern in Canada either if the rifle is bolt-action.

[lcpiper]

a new barrel does make it another gun.

No Bezoar it does not. I can't take one receiver with two barrels and somehow take my kid out hunting with me and both of us have a gun. The only reason you think so is because you are viewing this concept from an individual perspective and not as someone who is considering this from a group perspective.

Perhaps...a new barrel makes it a different gun.

[SIGSHR]

No other manufacturers have picked up on the Dan Wesson idea of interchangeable barrels, and the patents on that-if any-expired years ago. But it's a Big Deal when a manufacturer introduces ITS version of-the M1911!