New scope- new problem

ligonierbill · April 22, 2012, 02:33 PM

Last year I bought a Remington 700 VS 22-250 from a coworker. He had a Simmons 3-10 scope on Weaver mounts. First trip to the range was good: 1 1/4" groups at 200 yards. But I wanted a better scope. Bought a Nikon Monarch 5-20, which has a little better optics, and of course a higher magnification. Now, since the Simmons was on, I simply swapped it out for the Nikon without messing with the mounts. Overseas for most of the year, I finally got to the range today. Couldn't get it on the paper. Way to the left, beyond the scope adjustment. Got home to bore sight, and noticed that the scope was visibly angled to the right. Reversed the front mount, rear mount, looks close, but bore sighting still shows 4" left at about 20'. Is there a way to adjust the Weaver mounts, or should I just punt and buy a new set from Leupold or someone? Scope itself looks fine.

603Country · April 22, 2012, 03:19 PM

I had the same problem when I switched scopes on my old Marlin 39A. The old Weaver K4 was set up just fine, but the Leupold 2-7 was way way off when I mounted it, and was too far off to allow windage adjustment, though with some shimming I finally got it to a useable position. In my case I do think that the screw holes in the top of the rifle receiver were a bit out of line or the one piece Weaver base was off. You can do some shimming, but in your case I'd go for new mounts.

DnPRK · April 22, 2012, 09:48 PM

These rings (medium height)
or
These rings (high height)
with
These offset ring inserts

ligonierbill · April 22, 2012, 10:19 PM

Might be my solution. Anyone used these inserts?

hoghunting · April 22, 2012, 11:26 PM

Been using the Burris Signature rings for years and highly recommend them. The polymer inserts will allow the scope to align with the barrel, and they also prevent any ring marks on your scope.

ligonierbill · April 23, 2012, 07:00 AM

Thanks for the advice. I'll order them today...and report my results.

jmr40 · April 24, 2012, 08:55 AM

4" off at 20' wouldn't worry me at this point. Shoot it and zero at 100 yards and then decide. If one scope was shooting fine in those mounts, then another scope should be fine. While everything looks fine I think you either have a scope problem or something is not right in the way it was mounted.

Art Eatman · April 24, 2012, 11:02 AM

If the only change was to change the scope, how could the mounts have been changed from "good" to "bad"?

And changing scopes within the Weaver system, what could have changed?

Does not compute. I've not had this sort of problem in some sixty years of using Weaver mounts of their various styles.

603Country · April 24, 2012, 05:41 PM

If Art's comment (and the one prior to that) was aimed at me and my Marlin 39A, and how in the world could scope B be too far off if scope A was properly adjusted to the rifle, the answer is that I can only guess. Your question was reasonable and it's the same thing I thought when the 'new' scope, which was a rather old Leupold 2x7 couldn't be adjusted far enough to one direction to allow the rifle to be zeroed. The first time I mounted that 'new' scope and had the problem I finally just gave up and put the old Weaver K4 back on there. Then a year or two later I decided to go with the other Leupold 2x7 that I had just gotten from my Dad. Well, that one wouldn't adjust far enough either. All I can come up with as a reason is that the Leupold doesn't have enough available adjustment to compensate for the misalignment of the screws and the one piece base on the Marlin. And yes, I did try to adjust the base in some manner, which wasn't possible, and I tried everything else I could think of. The old Weaver K4 must have just enough windage adjustment available to zero the scope on that rifle, whereas the Leupolds did not. And not being aware of the Burris mounts and rings, I just shimmed the base enough to make it all work. And being way out in the country, I didn't feel like driving a long way to a gunshop to buy any new mounts or bases. I went with what I had. So...there's the story. You can offer suggestions if you wish, but I'm not touching all of that stuff again to try to make it align better. It's working, and we all know what to do if it ain't broke.

And that first Leupold 2x7, which wouldn't zero on the Marlin, is happily installed on my Winchester 9422, so there's no scope problem.

SSA · April 24, 2012, 05:59 PM

Going by the specs on the Nikon site, the Nikon Monarch 5-20 has about the least windage and elevation adjustment of any scope out there.

Art Eatman · April 24, 2012, 07:50 PM

"...the Leupold doesn't have enough available adjustment to compensate for the misalignment of the screws and the one piece base on the Marlin."

Yeah, that would do it if the basic setup was misaligned.

I ran into that misalignment on a 1952-vintage Winchester Model 70 Super Grade--of all things! I went through my wild-animal box of gun-stuff and found a rear base that had horizontal adjustments. Problem solved.

jmr40 · April 25, 2012, 10:05 AM

This is why they make windage adjustable mounts. If for some reason the mounting holes are not drilled correctly they allow you to zero a scope and still keep the scopes adjustments farily close to the middle.

If this is the case then then the first scope that was zeroed must have been very close to the limits of it's adjustments.

I've owned and shot a lot of rifles and have never found one that required windage adjustable mounts and generally despise them unless they are needed. That may be the case with this gun.

wingman · April 25, 2012, 10:15 AM

I had problem with same scope on a Savage 12 using various mounts turned out it was problem with barrel install on the savage once barrel was replaced problem went away however also sold the Monarch due to low amount of adjustment and the tunnel effect, my old eyes would grow very tired after 30 rounds.

I would agree with previous post first scope was at its max adjustment, problem is with rifle.

ligonierbill · April 25, 2012, 11:52 AM

Well, at least for bore sighting, the Burris rings and inserts did the trick. We will see how I do at the range.

PA Hunter37 · April 28, 2012, 08:52 AM

I had a similar problem a couple of years ago when I mounted a new scope on my Savage 300 win mag. Mine was elevetion instead of windage. I boresighted it fine but at 50 yds it consistantly shot 6" high with maximum adjustment. Ended up having to shim the base of the front mount. I only had to use a .010" shim but it did the trick just fine, now shoots dead on at 100 yds with some room do spare if I need to zero for longer distances.

ligonierbill · April 29, 2012, 11:00 AM

Success. The Burris mounts with offset inserts brought the rifle within 3" at 50. One adjustment and it's centered. Now to load some Nosler BT and zap some coyotes.

Art Eatman · April 29, 2012, 12:29 PM

Whatever works is by definition Good.

April 22, 2012, 02:33 PM	#1
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	New scope- new problem Last year I bought a Remington 700 VS 22-250 from a coworker. He had a Simmons 3-10 scope on Weaver mounts. First trip to the range was good: 1 1/4" groups at 200 yards. But I wanted a better scope. Bought a Nikon Monarch 5-20, which has a little better optics, and of course a higher magnification. Now, since the Simmons was on, I simply swapped it out for the Nikon without messing with the mounts. Overseas for most of the year, I finally got to the range today. Couldn't get it on the paper. Way to the left, beyond the scope adjustment. Got home to bore sight, and noticed that the scope was visibly angled to the right. Reversed the front mount, rear mount, looks close, but bore sighting still shows 4" left at about 20'. Is there a way to adjust the Weaver mounts, or should I just punt and buy a new set from Leupold or someone? Scope itself looks fine.

April 28, 2012, 08:52 AM	#15
PA Hunter37 Member Join Date: January 30, 2012 Location: Back in PA after 20 years Posts: 34	I had a similar problem a couple of years ago when I mounted a new scope on my Savage 300 win mag. Mine was elevetion instead of windage. I boresighted it fine but at 50 yds it consistantly shot 6" high with maximum adjustment. Ended up having to shim the base of the front mount. I only had to use a .010" shim but it did the trick just fine, now shoots dead on at 100 yds with some room do spare if I need to zero for longer distances. __________________ There aren't too many problems that can't be solved with either a quick mind or good aim.

April 22, 2012, 03:19 PM	#2
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I had the same problem when I switched scopes on my old Marlin 39A. The old Weaver K4 was set up just fine, but the Leupold 2-7 was way way off when I mounted it, and was too far off to allow windage adjustment, though with some shimming I finally got it to a useable position. In my case I do think that the screw holes in the top of the rifle receiver were a bit out of line or the one piece Weaver base was off. You can do some shimming, but in your case I'd go for new mounts.

April 22, 2012, 09:48 PM	#3
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	These rings (medium height) or These rings (high height) with These offset ring inserts

April 22, 2012, 10:19 PM	#4
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Might be my solution. Anyone used these inserts?

April 22, 2012, 11:26 PM	#5
hoghunting Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2006 Posts: 1,559	Been using the Burris Signature rings for years and highly recommend them. The polymer inserts will allow the scope to align with the barrel, and they also prevent any ring marks on your scope.

April 23, 2012, 07:00 AM	#6
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Thanks for the advice. I'll order them today...and report my results.

April 24, 2012, 08:55 AM	#7
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	4" off at 20' wouldn't worry me at this point. Shoot it and zero at 100 yards and then decide. If one scope was shooting fine in those mounts, then another scope should be fine. While everything looks fine I think you either have a scope problem or something is not right in the way it was mounted.

April 24, 2012, 11:02 AM	#8
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	If the only change was to change the scope, how could the mounts have been changed from "good" to "bad"? And changing scopes within the Weaver system, what could have changed? Does not compute. I've not had this sort of problem in some sixty years of using Weaver mounts of their various styles.

April 24, 2012, 05:41 PM	#9
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	If Art's comment (and the one prior to that) was aimed at me and my Marlin 39A, and how in the world could scope B be too far off if scope A was properly adjusted to the rifle, the answer is that I can only guess. Your question was reasonable and it's the same thing I thought when the 'new' scope, which was a rather old Leupold 2x7 couldn't be adjusted far enough to one direction to allow the rifle to be zeroed. The first time I mounted that 'new' scope and had the problem I finally just gave up and put the old Weaver K4 back on there. Then a year or two later I decided to go with the other Leupold 2x7 that I had just gotten from my Dad. Well, that one wouldn't adjust far enough either. All I can come up with as a reason is that the Leupold doesn't have enough available adjustment to compensate for the misalignment of the screws and the one piece base on the Marlin. And yes, I did try to adjust the base in some manner, which wasn't possible, and I tried everything else I could think of. The old Weaver K4 must have just enough windage adjustment available to zero the scope on that rifle, whereas the Leupolds did not. And not being aware of the Burris mounts and rings, I just shimmed the base enough to make it all work. And being way out in the country, I didn't feel like driving a long way to a gunshop to buy any new mounts or bases. I went with what I had. So...there's the story. You can offer suggestions if you wish, but I'm not touching all of that stuff again to try to make it align better. It's working, and we all know what to do if it ain't broke. And that first Leupold 2x7, which wouldn't zero on the Marlin, is happily installed on my Winchester 9422, so there's no scope problem.

April 24, 2012, 05:59 PM	#10
SSA Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Posts: 641	Going by the specs on the Nikon site, the Nikon Monarch 5-20 has about the least windage and elevation adjustment of any scope out there.

April 24, 2012, 07:50 PM	#11
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	"...the Leupold doesn't have enough available adjustment to compensate for the misalignment of the screws and the one piece base on the Marlin." Yeah, that would do it if the basic setup was misaligned. I ran into that misalignment on a 1952-vintage Winchester Model 70 Super Grade--of all things! I went through my wild-animal box of gun-stuff and found a rear base that had horizontal adjustments. Problem solved.

April 25, 2012, 10:05 AM	#12
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	This is why they make windage adjustable mounts. If for some reason the mounting holes are not drilled correctly they allow you to zero a scope and still keep the scopes adjustments farily close to the middle. If this is the case then then the first scope that was zeroed must have been very close to the limits of it's adjustments. I've owned and shot a lot of rifles and have never found one that required windage adjustable mounts and generally despise them unless they are needed. That may be the case with this gun.

April 25, 2012, 10:15 AM	#13
wingman Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 2,108	I had problem with same scope on a Savage 12 using various mounts turned out it was problem with barrel install on the savage once barrel was replaced problem went away however also sold the Monarch due to low amount of adjustment and the tunnel effect, my old eyes would grow very tired after 30 rounds. I would agree with previous post first scope was at its max adjustment, problem is with rifle.

April 25, 2012, 11:52 AM	#14
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Well, at least for bore sighting, the Burris rings and inserts did the trick. We will see how I do at the range.

April 29, 2012, 11:00 AM	#16
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Success. The Burris mounts with offset inserts brought the rifle within 3" at 50. One adjustment and it's centered. Now to load some Nosler BT and zap some coyotes.

April 29, 2012, 12:29 PM	#17
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Whatever works is by definition Good.