45 ACP Hitting Low at 50 yards-Reloading Fix?

AKGunner · March 23, 2008, 05:49 PM

I have a Wilson CQB that I used quite a bit at the range. 200-300 rounds per range visit. The CQB has fixed sights for those that might not know. The gun shoots constantly low at 50 yards, even when shot off a rest. (6-10 inches high) I often bring 5-10 clay birds to break on the 50 yard birm. I know I can hold a little high, but that's no fun if there is an easy reloading fix.

My current pet load is 200 swc lasercast bullets with 5.6 grains of w231. I've shot 5 or 6 thousand of such rounds through the gun and I'm quite happy with the reliability of the reload.

My question is can I change the recipe to have the gun hit more "spot on" at 50 yards? Will a sightly hotter load make much of a difference? A different powder?

Thanks.

Master Blaster · March 23, 2008, 06:26 PM

Try the 231 850 fps load for the 230 grain bullet, a heavier bullet tends to hit higher with fixed sights.

Tim R · March 24, 2008, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Will a sightly hotter load make much of a difference?

Hotter will make it go lower.....

The reason is because of barrel time. A slower bullet spends more time in the barrel. The barrel rises during recoil. The slow bullet leaves the barrel at a point higher during recoil than a fast bullet.

Or just try 230 gr Bullets like MG suggested and see what happens.

AKGunner · March 24, 2008, 09:25 AM

Thanks for the information guys. It just shows me I really have a lot to learn in this hobby of mine. I'll be bustin' those clay birds at fifty yards in no time! (Occasionally)

drail · March 24, 2008, 10:53 AM

Where does it place rounds at 25 yards? You might just have to take a little off the top of the front sight to get where you need at 50 yds. Just a little bit at a time.

tom234 · March 24, 2008, 11:25 AM

Wouldn't it be easier to just get an adjustable rear sight or replace the front sight ?

AKGunner · March 24, 2008, 12:35 PM

Tom234 said, "Where does it place rounds at 25 yards?"

About 3 inches low at 25 yards. I'd rather not file down the front sight if I can fix it with more or less powder, different bullets, etc.

"Wouldn't it be easier to just get an adjustable rear sight or replace the front sight ?"

I like the fixed sights for my "sometimes carry gun". I find adjustable sights rip up my hands during defensive handgun drills. At this point I'd still rather fiddle with relaoding fixes first before altering the gun at all.

Also, I guess I need to get a little serious and figure out exactly how low the gun is hitting at the distance. I'll get the sand bags out and actually keep my targets instead of just estimating the amount it's hitting low at each distance.

Thanks

AlaskaMike · March 24, 2008, 03:15 PM

Going from a 16 lb. recoil spring to an 18 lb. spring raised the POI on my springfield mil-spec slightly. Might be something else to consider.

Mike

WESHOOT2 · March 25, 2008, 10:06 AM

Suggest 230g LRN, 5.0--5.1g W231, OAL 1.255--1.260".

MaineColt · March 25, 2008, 11:37 AM

Like others have said, slower, heavier bullets will hit higher.

Kev

tom234 · March 25, 2008, 03:25 PM

[QUOTE][I like the fixed sights for my "sometimes carry gun". I find adjustable sights rip up my hands during defensive handgun drills. At this point I'd still rather fiddle with relaoding fixes first before altering the gun at all. /QUOTE]
Novak apparently makes an adjustable version [elevation] of their carry sights for
1911s. I'm looking into getting a set. My problem is the opposite; shooting too high at 25 yrds. I'd rather not modify my standard pin loads and have 2 different sets of ammo.

drail · March 25, 2008, 07:07 PM

Why are you hesitant to regulate the sights to the load? You can't expect a new front sight to be anywhere close to where you need it. Most everybody builds them tall so they can be adjusted. Regulating the load to the sights is going to be frustrating at least. I'm not trying to flame you, I've built a lot of .45 match guns and they all needed adjustments to the sights(fixed).

AKGunner · March 26, 2008, 01:13 PM

Drail said,

"Why are you hesitant to regulate the sights to the load? You can't expect a new front sight to be anywhere close to where you need it. Most everybody builds them tall so they can be adjusted. Regulating the load to the sights is going to be frustrating at least. I'm not trying to flame you, I've built a lot of .45 match guns and they all needed adjustments to the sights(fixed)."

I hear you drail. I've only been shooting a few years and I don't feel ready to alter the gun. This summer I may get into competition shooting with IDPA (or other competition) and I am not sure about the load yet. When I first started reloading I was just happy when all of my reloads went BANG!

and also fed in the gun. I feel I'm too ignorant at this time to know exactly what I want the gun to to do. I've got a lot to learn. I don't mind tinkering with loads some.

I will keep your suggestion in my mind though about adjusting the fixed sights. I don't feel flamed by your suggestion at all. I'm really happy to get your input.

somerled · March 26, 2008, 03:00 PM

If you back off the charge to 5.0 to 5.2 grains of 231, those 200 grain SWCs will hit higher. They will still function with a factory-weight or even the next-step-up extra power Wolff recoil spring. 5.6 grains is the max load listed by Hodgdon for Win 231 and will reach maybe 925 fps in a 5-inch barrel. The 200 grain SWC will shoot close to fixed sights for me if it is traveling around 840-860 fps in a 5-inch barrel.

Alliant's Bullseye measured at 4.7 grains is a good substitute. Armand Swenson used to sight in his custom pistols with 4.5 grains of Bullseye and a 200 grain SWC. THe extra .2 of a grain seems to work better with heavier recoil springs.

AlaskaMike · March 26, 2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

I hear you drail. I've only been shooting a few years and I don't feel ready to alter the gun.

I figured that might be the case (I'm kind of in the same boat), which was why I posted about the stronger recoil spring raising the point of impact in my 1911. Changing out recoil springs is an easy 2 minute operation and you can always change back to the stock spring if you don't like it.

Mike

drail · March 27, 2008, 06:22 AM

AKgunner, Good luck to you. I am sure you will enjoy the IPSC experience as much as I did. There are some really great people in that sport and everybody will be happy to help any newcomers. Don't believe the few that will tell you that you have to have the latest newest gadget to compete. A basic reliable 1911 is all you need.

March 23, 2008, 05:49 PM	#1
AKGunner Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 152	45 ACP Hitting Low at 50 yards-Reloading Fix? I have a Wilson CQB that I used quite a bit at the range. 200-300 rounds per range visit. The CQB has fixed sights for those that might not know. The gun shoots constantly low at 50 yards, even when shot off a rest. (6-10 inches high) I often bring 5-10 clay birds to break on the 50 yard birm. I know I can hold a little high, but that's no fun if there is an easy reloading fix. My current pet load is 200 swc lasercast bullets with 5.6 grains of w231. I've shot 5 or 6 thousand of such rounds through the gun and I'm quite happy with the reliability of the reload. My question is can I change the recipe to have the gun hit more "spot on" at 50 yards? Will a sightly hotter load make much of a difference? A different powder? Thanks.

March 25, 2008, 10:06 AM	#9
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	'pretty flat to 50' Suggest 230g LRN, 5.0--5.1g W231, OAL 1.255--1.260". __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

March 26, 2008, 01:13 PM	#13
AKGunner Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 152	Drail said, "Why are you hesitant to regulate the sights to the load? You can't expect a new front sight to be anywhere close to where you need it. Most everybody builds them tall so they can be adjusted. Regulating the load to the sights is going to be frustrating at least. I'm not trying to flame you, I've built a lot of .45 match guns and they all needed adjustments to the sights(fixed)." I hear you drail. I've only been shooting a few years and I don't feel ready to alter the gun. This summer I may get into competition shooting with IDPA (or other competition) and I am not sure about the load yet. When I first started reloading I was just happy when all of my reloads went BANG! and also fed in the gun. I feel I'm too ignorant at this time to know exactly what I want the gun to to do. I've got a lot to learn. I don't mind tinkering with loads some. I will keep your suggestion in my mind though about adjusting the fixed sights. I don't feel flamed by your suggestion at all. I'm really happy to get your input. Last edited by AKGunner; March 26, 2008 at 03:52 PM.

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March 23, 2008, 06:26 PM	#2
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	Try the 231 850 fps load for the 230 grain bullet, a heavier bullet tends to hit higher with fixed sights.

March 24, 2008, 09:25 AM	#4
AKGunner Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 152	Thanks for the information guys. It just shows me I really have a lot to learn in this hobby of mine. I'll be bustin' those clay birds at fifty yards in no time! (Occasionally)

March 24, 2008, 10:53 AM	#5
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	Where does it place rounds at 25 yards? You might just have to take a little off the top of the front sight to get where you need at 50 yds. Just a little bit at a time.

March 24, 2008, 11:25 AM	#6
tom234 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 753	Wouldn't it be easier to just get an adjustable rear sight or replace the front sight ?

March 24, 2008, 12:35 PM	#7
AKGunner Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 152	Tom234 said, "Where does it place rounds at 25 yards?" About 3 inches low at 25 yards. I'd rather not file down the front sight if I can fix it with more or less powder, different bullets, etc. "Wouldn't it be easier to just get an adjustable rear sight or replace the front sight ?" I like the fixed sights for my "sometimes carry gun". I find adjustable sights rip up my hands during defensive handgun drills. At this point I'd still rather fiddle with relaoding fixes first before altering the gun at all. Also, I guess I need to get a little serious and figure out exactly how low the gun is hitting at the distance. I'll get the sand bags out and actually keep my targets instead of just estimating the amount it's hitting low at each distance. Thanks

March 24, 2008, 03:15 PM	#8
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	Going from a 16 lb. recoil spring to an 18 lb. spring raised the POI on my springfield mil-spec slightly. Might be something else to consider. Mike

March 25, 2008, 11:37 AM	#10
MaineColt Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Maine Posts: 222	Like others have said, slower, heavier bullets will hit higher. Kev

March 25, 2008, 03:25 PM	#11
tom234 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 753	[QUOTE][I like the fixed sights for my "sometimes carry gun". I find adjustable sights rip up my hands during defensive handgun drills. At this point I'd still rather fiddle with relaoding fixes first before altering the gun at all. /QUOTE] Novak apparently makes an adjustable version [elevation] of their carry sights for 1911s. I'm looking into getting a set. My problem is the opposite; shooting too high at 25 yrds. I'd rather not modify my standard pin loads and have 2 different sets of ammo.

March 25, 2008, 07:07 PM	#12
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	Why are you hesitant to regulate the sights to the load? You can't expect a new front sight to be anywhere close to where you need it. Most everybody builds them tall so they can be adjusted. Regulating the load to the sights is going to be frustrating at least. I'm not trying to flame you, I've built a lot of .45 match guns and they all needed adjustments to the sights(fixed).

March 26, 2008, 03:00 PM	#14
somerled Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Location: eastern Kansas Posts: 603	If you back off the charge to 5.0 to 5.2 grains of 231, those 200 grain SWCs will hit higher. They will still function with a factory-weight or even the next-step-up extra power Wolff recoil spring. 5.6 grains is the max load listed by Hodgdon for Win 231 and will reach maybe 925 fps in a 5-inch barrel. The 200 grain SWC will shoot close to fixed sights for me if it is traveling around 840-860 fps in a 5-inch barrel. Alliant's Bullseye measured at 4.7 grains is a good substitute. Armand Swenson used to sight in his custom pistols with 4.5 grains of Bullseye and a 200 grain SWC. THe extra .2 of a grain seems to work better with heavier recoil springs.

March 27, 2008, 06:22 AM	#16
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	AKgunner, Good luck to you. I am sure you will enjoy the IPSC experience as much as I did. There are some really great people in that sport and everybody will be happy to help any newcomers. Don't believe the few that will tell you that you have to have the latest newest gadget to compete. A basic reliable 1911 is all you need.