LEO issues?

[XD Gunner]

Just had an LEO attempt to convince myself and a friend that by getting your C&R license, that it would then be completely legal to purchase modern fully automatic weapons, namely the Glock 18C, which IIRC, isn't even legal to have in the country unless your a specially commissioned LEO.

Advice? Seems like a whole lot of no good can come from this guy spreading this stuff around.

[David Hineline]

The state of MO requires some type of license to possess transferable machineguns, of course this does not include post 86 guns like the Glock.

I don't know what a specially commissioned LEO is but any police dept. in the US can issue a Glock 18 to any officer or deputy as their dept. policy sees fit.

Also any LE firearms dealer can have a Glock 18 for sale to those who can legally possess them.

Police don't know all the rules any more than you do. if you want to correct him write him a personal letter with documented information don't jack them up at work.

[Skans]

Just let it be. He's wrong, but no more wrong than an ordinary citizen would be on this topic. If you asked someone you just met who happens to work in the HR department of a large corporation an employment question and got a wrong answer, you wouldn't turn him into his superior, would you?

Cops aren't lawyers - and with free advice, you get what you paid for.

[Chipperman]

There are some machine guns which are C&R (e.g. Thompson, Sten, MP40). This may be what's confusing him.

You still have to do a Form 4 and get the Tax Stamp, but you can get the gun sent directly to you and not go through a Dealer (if you have a C&R).

A Glock 18 would not qualify for this, though.

[docpadds]

We hear of them being confused regularly because people call these Class 3 firearms and then the C&R is a Type 3 license. Have heard this confusion before.

[XD Gunner]

So, just so I have it straight, because I was under the impression that Any Full Auto weapons after 1986 were illegal for civilian possession, Even Class 3. But Fully Auto Weapons before 1986 were legal to own with a class 3? Pre 1986 are considered "transferable" weapons. Correct?

[Willie Lowman]

But Fully Auto Weapons before 1986 were legal to own with a class 3? Pre 1986 are considered "transferable" weapons. Correct?

If it was made before 86 and is in the NFA registry it can be owned by anyone provided they are in a NFA friendly state. Some of these guns are "transferable" Civilians own them on "form 4" with the $200 tax stamp. Dealers can have them on "form 3" with no tax.

If the gun was made before 86 and is in the registry and is not transferable, it is a "pre 86 dealer sample" All of these guns are on form 3 and are only ownable if a person has a "class 3" dealer's license/FFL. A dealer can keep a pre-sample if they give up their dealer's license but they can only sell the gun to another dealer.

(If the gun was registered before 1968, it is most likely transferable. If it was made in America after 68 it is probably transferable. If it was imported after 68 it is a dealer sample.)

If the gun was made after 86 it is a "post sample" and can only be owned by a dealer or law enforcement agency. If a dealer has a post sample gun and gives up his license, he must get rid of the gun.

[David Hineline]

First off if you can call in on Monday and say I quit and don't want to come to work today, and you don't goto federal prison, then you are a civilian. Some police think they are not.

In 1968 imported machineguns were banned, in 1986 US manuf. machineguns were banned.

As an individual you can buy a transferable machinegun. This is just a registered weapon not a weapon bought on any license.

Unlike the 94 AW ban where individual officers could buy Assault Weapons on police letterhead and keep them personally. Post 86 machineguns are deptartment owned, and issued to an officer as a duty weapon but they can not keep it.

Someone has to sell and manuf. and demonstrate machineguns to Agencies, so any FFL dealer who pays the SOT special occupational taxpayer can possess post 86 machineguns for demo, sale to govment agencies or to other dealers. Also some security companies have access to machineguns under nuclear or homeland security without being actual govment agencies. Salesmen also possess machineguns so most likely any Glock salesman has a Glock 18 in his posession.

So lots of civilians posses post 86 guns and govment agencies.
If you knew of a FFL SOT dealer you could contact them and be listed on their license as a responsible person, then you could possess, sell, demonstrate any of their shops inventory, so another civilian now has post 86 guns.

BATFE Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives. Pay the SOT buy/sell/manuf. beer, Pay the SOT buy/sell/manuf tobacco, Pay the SOT buy/sell/manuf. explosives etc. If you pay enough tax to the government there will be a license available for you to possess the something you desire.

[Wagonman]

First off if you can call in on Monday and say I quit and don't want to come to work today, and you don't goto federal prison, then you are a civilian. Some police think they are not

If you run toward Gunshots, armed offenders, fights, etc to restore the peace then you are not a civilian you are a Cop. I am required to take Police action 24/7 365.

[Bill DeShivs]

Contrary to popular belief, cops are civilians.

[David Hineline]

And you can quit tomorrow with no jail time which makes you a civilian. You are no more not a civilian than is a fireman or EMT or anyone else who decided to get a job in the public service sector.

COP citizens on patrol. My daughter is not a civilian, you sir are just a helpful action junkie with a job to serve the public as we see fit. Does not mean you don't deserve respect, might he a hero, a valuable asset to society, but you are a civilian.

http://www.usmccle.com/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110601931.html

[Bud Helms]

Off topic:

Contrary to popular belief, cops are civilians.

There is a signature on TFL that says (paraphrased), "If you don't have a DD 214, you are a civilian. I don't care which modern dictionary you use." Or something close to that. I chuckled when I read it because of the way enforcement people use the term "civilians" to mean them, not us.

However, the use of the term civilians is used by a lot of groups to mean those who are not part of our group, in simple terms. I know clubs that use the term. Many authoritarian-structured groups with limitations on membership use the term to mean outsiders.

Just for the record, I think you need a DD 214 to call anyone else a civilian. But that's just my usage.

On topic:

I think there is a lot to the confusion between a Class 3 Firearm and the requirements for ownership, and the C&R Type 3 License. I'd bet that is at the root of the OP's story of the cop's advice.

[Wagonman]

I think we are playing semantic games. There is a difference between someone who puts their safety on the line to deal with problems above and beyond what normal people are able to and civilians. We are not soldiers, I would argue we are closer to the militia in that we decide how long we serve