condition one concealed carry

Derekadavis · February 4, 2009, 02:51 PM

is it safe to carry a taurus 917 in condtion one? it has a frame mounted safety and i just do not feel that safe. i carry in condition 2 W/ safety on. what are the advantages and disadvantages?

mnw42 · February 4, 2009, 02:59 PM

I carry mt 1911 C&L. It is the fastest for me.

oldkim · February 4, 2009, 03:19 PM

Derek,

Your Taurus is not a SA only firearm like a 1911 and designed to be carried cocked and locked.

It's a semi (DA/SA).

I would not recommend you carry it with the hammer back. You're just asking for trouble you don't need. Keep the hammer down and the gun is ready to go - just pull the trigger and your off.

Hkmp5sd · February 4, 2009, 04:24 PM

It is safe to carry your gun with a round chambered and the safety off. Being DA/SA, you just draw and pull the trigger. As previously stated, it is not designed to be carried with the hammer cocked.

Keltyke · February 4, 2009, 04:54 PM

I carry a Steyr S40, a striker fired DAO with a trigger safety and a frame-mounted trigger finger safety. I carry a full mag with one in the chamber and the frame-mounted trigger finger safety on.

NavyLT · February 4, 2009, 05:11 PM

I could not answer the poll question because for me, it depends:

SAO first shot pistol such as Taurus PT145 or a 1911 would be cocked and locked with safety on.

DA first shot pistol such as a decocked PT92, Beretta 92FS, Ruger P345 and your 917 would be hammer down, safety off.

Always with a round chambered + full magazine.

oldkim · February 4, 2009, 05:13 PM

Yes, you can safely carry almost all modern DA/SA semi auto's with a loaded round in the chamber and the hammer down so long as your holster covers the trigger.

Glock doesn't have a safety so that's a mute point. The only real design that is made specifically are the SA only guns like the 1911 to be carried cocked and locked with the safety on, of course.

If you do feel safer to have the chamber unloaded but carry the mag fully loaded that's fine. You just have to rack the slide when the need arises. Yes, for the die hards out there it's a waste of time but if this makes you feel more comfortable and you carry more then so be it.

Remember never let your guard down with a gun - just that one time is all it takes. Never say "I'm the only one in this room qualified to handle this gun.... Boom!" So, that's what happened to the DEA agent when he was teaching a classroom on gun safety.

Hkmp5sd · February 4, 2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

So, that's what happened to the DEA agent when he was teaching a classroom on gun safety.

He was right. Anyone with lesser qualifications would have missed his leg and hit one of the students.

Creature · February 4, 2009, 05:35 PM

Depends on the pistol I am carrying and the action of that pistol.

My 1911 is Condition 1, cocked and safety on.
My Sig is Condition 1 as well, chambered but the hammer is down...because it is a DA pistol, there is no safety.
My S&W snubby is carried fully loaded and hammer down...its a DA as well.

The Great Mahoo · February 5, 2009, 10:32 AM

All of the guns I carry are DA, so its always chambered with hammer down.

Wagonman · February 5, 2009, 12:26 PM

WOW, my Sergeant and I were just talking about this last night. He had just bought a Sig 239 and took it to the range. He reholstered and went about his errands. While he was at the barbershop he couldn't remember if he had decocked prior to holstering. He went to the john, checked and hadn't decocked. We came to the determination as long as you are following the commandments of gun safety there is no more risk that carrying hammer down with the gun in a holster that covers the trigger.

I am not suggesting this mode of carry because that is not how the weapon was designed to be operated. I just don't think he was inherently unsafe.

SW1911CT · February 5, 2009, 04:33 PM

cond. 1

because it's a 1911 is there any other way?

dabigguns357 · February 5, 2009, 07:01 PM

chambered but with no safety or decocker.Mine is dao

Hkmp5sd · February 5, 2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

We came to the determination as long as you are following the commandments of gun safety there is no more risk that carrying hammer down with the gun in a holster that covers the trigger.

Congratulations. You just sided with Glock owners on the eternal debate about lack of a manual safety.

Wagonman · February 6, 2009, 12:32 AM

Is that a good thing?

BlueTrain · February 6, 2009, 09:01 AM

I might point out that one of the advantages of cocked and locked that no other carry method offers (for automatics) is that it actually locks the slide in place. For other carry methods it is possible to cause the slide to retract (probably only partly) when reholstering the pistol in a snug fitting hoster, which I presume most are. One or two pistol models can be locked hammer down, curiously enough, though the same models cannot be safely carried with a round chambered that way.

All this only applies to pistols with a slide, of course.

NavyLT · February 6, 2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

I might point out that one of the advantages of cocked and locked that no other carry method offers (for automatics) is that it actually locks the slide in place.

I believe that varies amongst guns and would only apply on those guns when the safety is on.

jjohnson · February 6, 2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

could not answer the poll question because for me, it depends:

SAO first shot pistol such as Taurus PT145 or a 1911 would be cocked and locked with safety on.

+1 with Squid. How I carry depends entirely on WHAT I carry.

3 gun · February 6, 2009, 01:37 PM

While the 917 (an updated 92 according to Taurus) is made to allow C&L, being a DA semi at heart I don't know that I would do it. Taurus doesn't say a thing about a firing pin block (which the 92 has) or grip safety both of which are on a 1911. I carry my 1911 C&L. I carry my CZ hammer down on a loaded chamber even though I could leave it C&L and it does have a FP block. As a side note the manual on the Taurus web site lists C&L as a safe way to carry this pistol. Knowing what I know about this model I'd carry decocked with the safety on. If they kept the FP block I'd carry decocked safety off.

cjw3cma · February 6, 2009, 01:53 PM

Not carrying C&L means to me that you think you will have the necessary time to either cock the hammer or chamber a round after you have decided to draw your weapon.

If I have made the decision to draw I want my gun to be as ready to discharge as safely possible immediately - so Cocked & Locked seems to be the only acceptable condition.

Playboypenguin · February 6, 2009, 02:04 PM

I primarily carry revolvers or DAO semi-autos so it is most similar to chambered with hammer down. When I carry a DA/SA semi-auto it is chambered with the hammer decocked and down. When I carry my 1911 it is cocked and locked.

sixgunluv · February 10, 2009, 06:38 PM

This poll isn't really as simple as 1,2,3 due to the various type of firearms and safety mechanisms.
While i'm here i guess i'll have a rant, it just gets under my skin how some will suggest that if you don't carry a 1911 cocked and locked you should consider another firearm because you are unsafe...Baloney!!! I guess C&L is safer than nothing in the chamber??? If your are not confident in your knowledge and ability you are not safe with any weapon...period. Ok i'm done

My carry gun
Condition 2 with safety on/ or safety off depending on the atmosphere...... Star BM 9mm

I need a laugh...think i'll watch the DEA agent discharging his weapon for the weapons safety class...

BuckHammer · February 10, 2009, 07:46 PM

Does a Glock 21 with one in the pipe count as condition 1? If so, then I carry that way. I also selected condition 3 because I also carry with empty pipe, it just depends.

Milspec · February 11, 2009, 10:19 AM

I carry our Para LDA/PDA .45 with the chamber loaded and safety on. Most everything else is double action only with no safety...so they're carried round chambered. I guess if I carried my Taurus PT1911AR with laser & headlight I'd go Condition 1...just don't have a reason to...

Milspec

BlueTrain · February 11, 2009, 12:18 PM

Well, here's some more thoughts on the subject. And by the way, when I mentioned that cocked and locked actually locked the slide in place and immovable when reholstering, I did mean with the safety on.

There are safeties and there are safeties. Some safeties I do not trust when applied to a cocked automatic. Not because they don't necessarily work so much as they don't seem especially positive. I include CZ automatics in this and as I recall, Luger's didn't have an especially positive safety either, not that I expect many people are relying on a 1909 design today. In any case, they seem too easy to push off safe.

Many automatics which otherwise have a very positive safety lever also have very small levers, mostly older ones. The Colt pocket autos have very small, flat ones, perhaps by design. Even the older 1911s had small ones (small sights, too). I know that oversized safeties are in vogue in some circles but there is a trade off in ease of manipulation and ease of unintentional manipulation. But I've mostly always been happy with the way things came from the factory if I wanted it to begin with.

But if something can be carried safely cocked and locked doesn't mean it has to be carried that way, even though I have carried one (LW Commander) that way and felt perfectly happy. Likewise, it doesn't follow that cocked and locked is necessarily that much faster. I suspect that reaction time is most of the time it takes anyway but I could be wrong. I often am. But I have found that Colt automatics (and similiar automatics) to be the easiest things to charge, manipulating the slide. CZs, on the other hand, are difficult (for me). Sometimes refinished slides can be real slick and that doesn't help. Glocks are easy to work, too.

At the moment I rely on a Walther that only has a decocker so I avoid the issue but not intentionally. I almost bought a Colt with only a decocker but that's another story. But speaking of Walthers, if you had an automatic with a Walther style safety (PPK, M39, M59 etc), would you carry it safety on or safety off?

View Poll Results: how do you carry? and why?
Condition 1 Cocked and Locked	61	67.03%
Condition 2 Chambered Hammer down	31	34.07%
Condition 3 full Mag None it the pipe	5	5.49%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

February 4, 2009, 02:51 PM	#1
Derekadavis Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Location: Dallas,Tx Posts: 103	condition one concealed carry is it safe to carry a taurus 917 in condtion one? it has a frame mounted safety and i just do not feel that safe. i carry in condition 2 W/ safety on. what are the advantages and disadvantages? __________________ USCCA & NRA Member

February 4, 2009, 03:19 PM	#3
oldkim Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 462	do not carry with hammer cocked. Derek, Your Taurus is not a SA only firearm like a 1911 and designed to be carried cocked and locked. It's a semi (DA/SA). I would not recommend you carry it with the hammer back. You're just asking for trouble you don't need. Keep the hammer down and the gun is ready to go - just pull the trigger and your off. __________________ "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport." Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA Check out my new website: www.shootonthemove.org

February 4, 2009, 04:24 PM	#4
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	It is safe to carry your gun with a round chambered and the safety off. Being DA/SA, you just draw and pull the trigger. As previously stated, it is not designed to be carried with the hammer cocked. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

February 4, 2009, 05:13 PM	#7
oldkim Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 462	Is it safe to carry with round in chamber? Yes, you can safely carry almost all modern DA/SA semi auto's with a loaded round in the chamber and the hammer down so long as your holster covers the trigger. Glock doesn't have a safety so that's a mute point. The only real design that is made specifically are the SA only guns like the 1911 to be carried cocked and locked with the safety on, of course. If you do feel safer to have the chamber unloaded but carry the mag fully loaded that's fine. You just have to rack the slide when the need arises. Yes, for the die hards out there it's a waste of time but if this makes you feel more comfortable and you carry more then so be it. Remember never let your guard down with a gun - just that one time is all it takes. Never say "I'm the only one in this room qualified to handle this gun.... Boom!" So, that's what happened to the DEA agent when he was teaching a classroom on gun safety. __________________ "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport." Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA Check out my new website: www.shootonthemove.org

February 4, 2009, 02:59 PM	#2
mnw42 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2008 Location: Bucks Co., PA Posts: 210	I carry mt 1911 C&L. It is the fastest for me.

February 4, 2009, 04:54 PM	#5
Keltyke Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: Spartanburg, SC Posts: 2,933	I carry a Steyr S40, a striker fired DAO with a trigger safety and a frame-mounted trigger finger safety. I carry a full mag with one in the chamber and the frame-mounted trigger finger safety on.

February 4, 2009, 05:11 PM	#6
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	I could not answer the poll question because for me, it depends: SAO first shot pistol such as Taurus PT145 or a 1911 would be cocked and locked with safety on. DA first shot pistol such as a decocked PT92, Beretta 92FS, Ruger P345 and your 917 would be hammer down, safety off. Always with a round chambered + full magazine.

February 4, 2009, 05:35 PM	#9
Creature Junior member Join Date: April 8, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,769	Depends on the pistol I am carrying and the action of that pistol. My 1911 is Condition 1, cocked and safety on. My Sig is Condition 1 as well, chambered but the hammer is down...because it is a DA pistol, there is no safety. My S&W snubby is carried fully loaded and hammer down...its a DA as well. Last edited by Creature; February 4, 2009 at 05:42 PM.

February 5, 2009, 10:32 AM	#10
The Great Mahoo Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2008 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 1,269	All of the guns I carry are DA, so its always chambered with hammer down.

February 5, 2009, 12:26 PM	#11
Wagonman Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,014	WOW, my Sergeant and I were just talking about this last night. He had just bought a Sig 239 and took it to the range. He reholstered and went about his errands. While he was at the barbershop he couldn't remember if he had decocked prior to holstering. He went to the john, checked and hadn't decocked. We came to the determination as long as you are following the commandments of gun safety there is no more risk that carrying hammer down with the gun in a holster that covers the trigger. I am not suggesting this mode of carry because that is not how the weapon was designed to be operated. I just don't think he was inherently unsafe.

February 5, 2009, 04:33 PM	#12
SW1911CT Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: Raleigh Posts: 90	cond. 1 because it's a 1911 is there any other way?

February 5, 2009, 07:01 PM	#13
dabigguns357 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Location: Ona,West Virginia Posts: 1,215	chambered but with no safety or decocker.Mine is dao

February 6, 2009, 12:32 AM	#15
Wagonman Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,014	Is that a good thing?

February 6, 2009, 09:01 AM	#16
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	I might point out that one of the advantages of cocked and locked that no other carry method offers (for automatics) is that it actually locks the slide in place. For other carry methods it is possible to cause the slide to retract (probably only partly) when reholstering the pistol in a snug fitting hoster, which I presume most are. One or two pistol models can be locked hammer down, curiously enough, though the same models cannot be safely carried with a round chambered that way. All this only applies to pistols with a slide, of course. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

February 6, 2009, 01:37 PM	#19
3 gun Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: N41 24.283 W81 43.370 N.E.Ohio Posts: 561	While the 917 (an updated 92 according to Taurus) is made to allow C&L, being a DA semi at heart I don't know that I would do it. Taurus doesn't say a thing about a firing pin block (which the 92 has) or grip safety both of which are on a 1911. I carry my 1911 C&L. I carry my CZ hammer down on a loaded chamber even though I could leave it C&L and it does have a FP block. As a side note the manual on the Taurus web site lists C&L as a safe way to carry this pistol. Knowing what I know about this model I'd carry decocked with the safety on. If they kept the FP block I'd carry decocked safety off. __________________ Change you can believe in... Pre-65 US silver coins NRA RSO & Certified Instructor in rifle, pistol, shotgun. An unloaded pistol is a paperweight. Opportunity knocks..Trouble kicks down the door.

February 6, 2009, 01:53 PM	#20
cjw3cma Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2007 Location: Chiloquin, OR Posts: 217	Not carrying C&L means to me that you think you will have the necessary time to either cock the hammer or chamber a round after you have decided to draw your weapon. If I have made the decision to draw I want my gun to be as ready to discharge as safely possible immediately - so Cocked & Locked seems to be the only acceptable condition. __________________ The Constitution shall never be construed … to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. – Samuel Adams

February 6, 2009, 02:04 PM	#21
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	I primarily carry revolvers or DAO semi-autos so it is most similar to chambered with hammer down. When I carry a DA/SA semi-auto it is chambered with the hammer decocked and down. When I carry my 1911 it is cocked and locked.

February 10, 2009, 06:38 PM	#22
sixgunluv Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2008 Posts: 200	Carry Condition This poll isn't really as simple as 1,2,3 due to the various type of firearms and safety mechanisms. While i'm here i guess i'll have a rant, it just gets under my skin how some will suggest that if you don't carry a 1911 cocked and locked you should consider another firearm because you are unsafe...Baloney!!! I guess C&L is safer than nothing in the chamber??? If your are not confident in your knowledge and ability you are not safe with any weapon...period. Ok i'm done My carry gun Condition 2 with safety on/ or safety off depending on the atmosphere...... Star BM 9mm I need a laugh...think i'll watch the DEA agent discharging his weapon for the weapons safety class... Last edited by sixgunluv; February 10, 2009 at 08:22 PM.

February 10, 2009, 07:46 PM	#23
BuckHammer Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 286	Does a Glock 21 with one in the pipe count as condition 1? If so, then I carry that way. I also selected condition 3 because I also carry with empty pipe, it just depends. __________________ Luck runs out. Boiler Up!

February 11, 2009, 10:19 AM	#24
Milspec Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2008 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 117	I carry our Para LDA/PDA .45 with the chamber loaded and safety on. Most everything else is double action only with no safety...so they're carried round chambered. I guess if I carried my Taurus PT1911AR with laser & headlight I'd go Condition 1...just don't have a reason to... Milspec __________________ "...there is no second place winner in a gunfight." Colonel Bill Jordan

February 11, 2009, 12:18 PM	#25
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	Well, here's some more thoughts on the subject. And by the way, when I mentioned that cocked and locked actually locked the slide in place and immovable when reholstering, I did mean with the safety on. There are safeties and there are safeties. Some safeties I do not trust when applied to a cocked automatic. Not because they don't necessarily work so much as they don't seem especially positive. I include CZ automatics in this and as I recall, Luger's didn't have an especially positive safety either, not that I expect many people are relying on a 1909 design today. In any case, they seem too easy to push off safe. Many automatics which otherwise have a very positive safety lever also have very small levers, mostly older ones. The Colt pocket autos have very small, flat ones, perhaps by design. Even the older 1911s had small ones (small sights, too). I know that oversized safeties are in vogue in some circles but there is a trade off in ease of manipulation and ease of unintentional manipulation. But I've mostly always been happy with the way things came from the factory if I wanted it to begin with. But if something can be carried safely cocked and locked doesn't mean it has to be carried that way, even though I have carried one (LW Commander) that way and felt perfectly happy. Likewise, it doesn't follow that cocked and locked is necessarily that much faster. I suspect that reaction time is most of the time it takes anyway but I could be wrong. I often am. But I have found that Colt automatics (and similiar automatics) to be the easiest things to charge, manipulating the slide. CZs, on the other hand, are difficult (for me). Sometimes refinished slides can be real slick and that doesn't help. Glocks are easy to work, too. At the moment I rely on a Walther that only has a decocker so I avoid the issue but not intentionally. I almost bought a Colt with only a decocker but that's another story. But speaking of Walthers, if you had an automatic with a Walther style safety (PPK, M39, M59 etc), would you carry it safety on or safety off? __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.