Heavy and Fast for 357 Magnum

Boo586 · October 9, 2002, 08:17 AM

Yesterday was my birthday and I treated myself and bought some new bullets to reload for my 357 magnum hunting round this year. I am currently shooting a S&W 586-3 with a 6" tube. Here is what I bought.

100 - 170 grain Sierra JHC Bullets
100 - 180 grain Remington SJHP
Shooting Chrony Master F-1 Chronograph

and I also have some 180 grain Hornady XTP-JHP.

For cases I have Federal, R-P, Winchester, Fiochi and PMC.
For Primers I have CCI Small Pistol (CCI-SP) Primers, Winchester Small Pistol Magnum Primers (WSPM) and Winchester Small Rifle (WSR) Primers.
As far as Powders go I have 2400, H110 and Lil'Gun.

As I was inspecting the bullets I noticed that the cannelure on the Remington 180 grainers is a lot closer to the base of the bullet than the cannelure on the Sierra and Hornady bullets. Based on this, there is going to be more room for powder in the case beneath the Remingtons than there will be for the other bullets.

I have already made up some test round with the Lil-Gun and the Hornandy Bullets using the PMC Brass and WSPM primers.

14.0 grains Lil-Gun over a 180 Gr. XTP-JHP (6 cartridges)
14.3 grains Lil-Gun over a 180 Gr. XTP-JHP (6 cartridges)
14.6 grains Lil-Gun over a 180 Gr. XTP-JHP (6 cartridges)
15.0 grains Lil-Gun over a 180 Gr. XTP-JHP (7 cartridges)

Now the questions.

Should I just follow a similar pattern when developing the loads for the other components.

How should I adjust the load data when i use the Small Rifle Primers. I know I need to lower the powder charge, but how much? One grain?

Does anyone have a Sierra reloading Manual that gives a starting and max load for any of the powders that I mentioned with the 170 grain JHC?

WESHOOT2, Steve Smith and the many others that develop full power loads can you help me?

Thanks,
Boo586

Steve Smith · October 9, 2002, 11:22 AM

Actually, I haven't done much with .357 Mag...just too many other irons in the fire. Yeah, yeah, blasphemy, I know. As a munch of old timers say, if you can't accomplish what you want with the gun you have, move up in caliber!

My rule of thumb is if I change anything, I go back to a starting load and try it again from there. You don't have to load quite as many, but just enough across the board to watch the speeds. In a good pistol, you won't see much for pressure signs on the brass, so stick to known loads and don't try to burn the house down.

One concern you may have with those low cannelure bullets is that a loaded cartridge might not fit in the cylinder. Mock one up and try it. No one ever said you have to seat at the cannelure, but pressures rise as the bullet goes deeper, so account for that in your loads.

Go to "the Campfire" at www.sixguns.com and you might eb able to get a little more info about loads.

Don't use the "Max load" phrase or John Taffin will cut you down in a heart beat!

BTW, have you thought about using lead?

Ben Shepherd · October 14, 2002, 08:33 AM

Any of your powders will work. I prefer 2400 for heavy 357 loads personally.

I also sugest a good hardcast lead slug, as it will run faster than a jacketed slug of the same weight, if given the same powder charge.

One other thing: a good crimp is [B]madatoryB]for heavy slugs and slow powders.

Smokey Joe · October 16, 2002, 03:03 AM

Ben is absolutely right. 180 gr. hardcast lead bullets with a flattish nose in front of an appropriate amount of 2400 is great deer and hog medicine. And a heavy crimp is essential. These loads go whomp at my end, and whomp when they get there.

Ben Shepherd · October 16, 2002, 07:39 AM

Use the search feature to find my thread: C.R.Sam & WESHOOT2 ANSWERS PLEASE. How to use your chrono for load development was covered very well in this thread.

Remember: If max velocity comes at the expense of accuracy and/or reliability then it's useless. (It also means you're most likely trying to do something that should be done with a bigger or more powerful caliber anyway)

Krautguns · October 16, 2002, 11:22 AM

a .357 loadmap might be useful. I use my 9mm one extensively in load development. Its the best pistol data resource I have seen.

October 9, 2002, 08:17 AM	#1
Boo586 Member Join Date: May 15, 2001 Location: Indiana Posts: 85	Heavy and Fast for 357 Magnum Yesterday was my birthday and I treated myself and bought some new bullets to reload for my 357 magnum hunting round this year. I am currently shooting a S&W 586-3 with a 6" tube. Here is what I bought. 100 - 170 grain Sierra JHC Bullets 100 - 180 grain Remington SJHP Shooting Chrony Master F-1 Chronograph and I also have some 180 grain Hornady XTP-JHP. For cases I have Federal, R-P, Winchester, Fiochi and PMC. For Primers I have CCI Small Pistol (CCI-SP) Primers, Winchester Small Pistol Magnum Primers (WSPM) and Winchester Small Rifle (WSR) Primers. As far as Powders go I have 2400, H110 and Lil'Gun. As I was inspecting the bullets I noticed that the cannelure on the Remington 180 grainers is a lot closer to the base of the bullet than the cannelure on the Sierra and Hornady bullets. Based on this, there is going to be more room for powder in the case beneath the Remingtons than there will be for the other bullets. I have already made up some test round with the Lil-Gun and the Hornandy Bullets using the PMC Brass and WSPM primers. 14.0 grains Lil-Gun over a 180 Gr. XTP-JHP (6 cartridges) 14.3 grains Lil-Gun over a 180 Gr. XTP-JHP (6 cartridges) 14.6 grains Lil-Gun over a 180 Gr. XTP-JHP (6 cartridges) 15.0 grains Lil-Gun over a 180 Gr. XTP-JHP (7 cartridges) Now the questions. Should I just follow a similar pattern when developing the loads for the other components. How should I adjust the load data when i use the Small Rifle Primers. I know I need to lower the powder charge, but how much? One grain? Does anyone have a Sierra reloading Manual that gives a starting and max load for any of the powders that I mentioned with the 170 grain JHC? WESHOOT2, Steve Smith and the many others that develop full power loads can you help me? Thanks, Boo586

October 9, 2002, 11:22 AM	#2
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Actually, I haven't done much with .357 Mag...just too many other irons in the fire. Yeah, yeah, blasphemy, I know. As a munch of old timers say, if you can't accomplish what you want with the gun you have, move up in caliber! My rule of thumb is if I change anything, I go back to a starting load and try it again from there. You don't have to load quite as many, but just enough across the board to watch the speeds. In a good pistol, you won't see much for pressure signs on the brass, so stick to known loads and don't try to burn the house down. One concern you may have with those low cannelure bullets is that a loaded cartridge might not fit in the cylinder. Mock one up and try it. No one ever said you have to seat at the cannelure, but pressures rise as the bullet goes deeper, so account for that in your loads. Go to "the Campfire" at www.sixguns.com and you might eb able to get a little more info about loads. Don't use the "Max load" phrase or John Taffin will cut you down in a heart beat! BTW, have you thought about using lead? __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

October 14, 2002, 08:33 AM	#3
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	Any of your powders will work. I prefer 2400 for heavy 357 loads personally. I also sugest a good hardcast lead slug, as it will run faster than a jacketed slug of the same weight, if given the same powder charge. One other thing: a good crimp is [B]madatoryB]for heavy slugs and slow powders. __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

October 16, 2002, 03:03 AM	#4
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	.357, big, slow, and ugly Ben is absolutely right. 180 gr. hardcast lead bullets with a flattish nose in front of an appropriate amount of 2400 is great deer and hog medicine. And a heavy crimp is essential. These loads go whomp at my end, and whomp when they get there. __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe

October 16, 2002, 07:39 AM	#5
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	Use the search feature to find my thread: C.R.Sam & WESHOOT2 ANSWERS PLEASE. How to use your chrono for load development was covered very well in this thread. Remember: If max velocity comes at the expense of accuracy and/or reliability then it's useless. (It also means you're most likely trying to do something that should be done with a bigger or more powerful caliber anyway) __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

October 16, 2002, 11:22 AM	#6
Krautguns Member Join Date: October 15, 2002 Posts: 29	a .357 loadmap might be useful. I use my 9mm one extensively in load development. Its the best pistol data resource I have seen.