Minimal caliber for SD in semi auto?

Firepower! · October 17, 2009, 01:41 PM

Hi
I have been reading a lot about various guns to decide which semi auto(s) to keep on person and in vehicle. With the increasingly rough situation in Pakistan, I want to know what should be the minimal caliber kept on person and in car for an adequate deterence. Note that keeping rifle or smg in vehicle these daysi is very hard because cops are tough on that. Although you can keep such in car, it nevertheless is a pain to show paperwork and waste 1/2 hour all the time.

Regards,

rsxr22 · October 17, 2009, 01:53 PM

i would probably keep either hi-cap .40 or .45's in the car. I am not to familiar with the situation in Pakistan, but ignorantly i would imply that more people have ak's and various rifles over there, so if you had a handgun, i'd want a caliber that would put em on their back with one shot

Firepower! · October 17, 2009, 03:14 PM

rsxr......you got the point. Idea is to put them down with minimum number of shot- ideally ONE. Rogue elements always come after you with AK. I know that any handgun vs AK is underguned. However, not having anything is even worse. Atleast, I want to be able to put up a quick and forcefull response while escaping to better position.

rsxr22 · October 17, 2009, 04:18 PM

ya if i wouldnt have read your entire post, i probably would have said something else, but after reading and seeing you were in Pakistan-i changed my mind. Over in the US, we dont deal normally with those kinds of issues and i sometimes carry a .380.

golfnutrlv · October 17, 2009, 04:22 PM

Noramlly I would say 9mm or larger.

Based on your situation though, I would say the largest calibert you can effectively put rounds on target with. High capacity 40-45 would do the trick.

10mm would be even better but I don't know your situation legally with that kind of round.

Coltman 77 · October 17, 2009, 04:33 PM

Here is a link you may find informative.

Since this is the semiauto handgun forum, I approached it from that perspective.

If we're considering long arms, that is a completely different situation and you should post your question in a "long gun" type forum.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De..._FAQ/index.htm

Good luck. Please keep us updated on your decisions.

IdahoG36 · October 17, 2009, 04:36 PM

Given the current situation in Pakistan, if it is legal for you to do so, you should carry a rifle in your vehicle. I would not want to face people armed with AK47s using just a handgun for defense.

comn-cents · October 17, 2009, 04:39 PM

I say a hi cap 9mm would work for me. I can shoot it faster than a 40 or 45 and I get more bullets. There is not magic one shot knock someone on their butt handgun round. Why do people seem to think that it is true? Like you said getting out of the situation would be my main goal as well. Being able to shoot back, possible one handed because you are driving is made easier with a 9. I have a cz & a sig that holds 20 rounds. With good modern hollow points they are no less affective than a 40 or 45.

shepherddogs · October 17, 2009, 06:41 PM

I would disagree with Comn-cents and choose a 45 or 10mm ideally unless you are trying to defeat body armor. Then possibly a 9mm with FMJ. Forgive the stereotyping but people in the US tend to think of Pakistanis as all bearded men in white robes with AKs. Not equipped with body armor. Maybe you can enlighten us as to the situation in your country.

TBT · October 17, 2009, 06:49 PM

Minimum would be 9mm.

PSP · October 17, 2009, 06:59 PM

They are all lethal. The gun you are proficient with, no matter the caliber, is more likely to provide better security than one carried simply because of a caliber.

zxcvbob · October 17, 2009, 07:04 PM

How about a .30 Tokarev? Good if you have to shoot thru a car door, windshield, soft body armor, etc.

DasFriek · October 18, 2009, 12:38 AM

Minimum is a high cap 9mm
Preferred is 10mm G20
If available a 1911 with a .460 Rowland conversion and 10 spare 10 round mags.

In the USA a single stack 9mm is about as low of a caliber for SD.
But in Pakistan id have a gun strapped to every part of my body so it could supplement my body armor.

Good Luck there man and be safe,and im glad im not with you.
Unless your Military then i do wish i could be next to you and help.

LarryFlew · October 18, 2009, 05:24 PM

Also depends on ammo availability in your country. Guessing 9mm is the easiest to find.

cavnamvet · October 18, 2009, 09:04 PM

Get a glock 17 or 19 9mm and all the extra mags & ammo you can find.

bakon · October 19, 2009, 12:33 AM

For where you live...A US Marine

LordofWar · October 19, 2009, 03:52 AM

bakon,

And who do you think would protect the US Marine? LOL

Elvishead · October 19, 2009, 05:27 AM

No doubt in my mind, a high cap (12-20) 9mm, no questions asked.

Even if you used it to keep heads down, that would be the way to go so you can get out of danger.

cougar gt-e · October 19, 2009, 10:07 AM

High cap in a 40 or 45. Modern 40's have 14-16 in the mag (my Xdm is 16+1) and modern double stack 45's are 12-14 in the mag.

DaveTec · October 19, 2009, 10:16 AM

Firepower, if I were you, I'd carpool with LordofWar!!!

Elvishead · October 19, 2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

High cap in a 40 or 45. Modern 40's have 14-16 in the mag (my Xdm is 16+1) and modern double stack 45's are 12-14 in the mag.

Can you get 40s and 45s in PK?

I pick 9mm because I would guess they are easier to get.

shooter_from_show-me · October 19, 2009, 03:42 PM

No less than a 9mm for me also.

Willie Lowman · October 19, 2009, 04:14 PM

I am going to guess that you will have to pay a very steep tax on any high quality handgun ammo. I like Gold Dot or DPX.

Carry what ever you can feed with quality ammo and you can shoot well. If I remember correctly you recently bought a GP100 .357? That is a fine revolver, with 158 grain bullets you will get good penetration. I am sure you have some Glocks or a HK USP. Those are fine defensive handguns when loaded with quality ammo.

Caliber is not so much the issue as is the skill of the shooter and the quality of his weapon. ...Well, caliber of 9mm and up...

If it was me I would carry the AK-74SU or the M4... Police hassles be damned. I would rather be delayed than under gunned.

Be safe.

shortwave · October 19, 2009, 04:27 PM

As already posted, least would be highest cap. 9mm. IMO, best would be highest cap. 45acp I could get with as many spare mags as possible in whichever I chose.

5whiskey · October 19, 2009, 04:38 PM

Someone mentioned the 7.62 tokarev. Though not the classiest of pistols, I would think that there are a blue million of them in your neck of the woods. I would trust that round as much as a 9mm or 40s&w and it may be a heck of a lot cheaper for you than some of the others listed. That round has the capability of penetrating soft armor as well, where none of the others listed could hope to (I don't think the tok can do it reliably, but the concensus seems to be that it can do so given the proper conditions).

The only problem with the tok is small holes and a decent garauntee that the round will penetrate clean through the assailant, thus not transfering all of it's energy and killing potential onto the target. Can you obtain 10mm, .357 sig, or some of the other hot rounds in Pk firepower or LOW? Is cost an issue? What type of platforms (pistols) are available? We can give options, but some of them may not be viable.

Quote:

And who do you think would protect the US Marine? LOL

He wouldn't last too long unless he had decent enough background to blend in or had a whole lot of friends with belt fed weapons. We Marines are tough nuts, don't get me wrong, but we tend to stick out like a cub scout in a whore house and attract alot of attention. Not really all that great for covert security.

October 17, 2009, 01:41 PM	#1
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Minimal caliber for SD in semi auto? Hi I have been reading a lot about various guns to decide which semi auto(s) to keep on person and in vehicle. With the increasingly rough situation in Pakistan, I want to know what should be the minimal caliber kept on person and in car for an adequate deterence. Note that keeping rifle or smg in vehicle these daysi is very hard because cops are tough on that. Although you can keep such in car, it nevertheless is a pain to show paperwork and waste 1/2 hour all the time. Regards,

October 17, 2009, 04:22 PM	#5
golfnutrlv Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 1,347	Noramlly I would say 9mm or larger. Based on your situation though, I would say the largest calibert you can effectively put rounds on target with. High capacity 40-45 would do the trick. 10mm would be even better but I don't know your situation legally with that kind of round. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ VIGILIA PRETIUM LIBERTATIS "The price of liberty is vigilance" America is at an awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.

October 17, 2009, 04:33 PM	#6
Coltman 77 Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2009 Location: NC Posts: 1,244	Here is a link you may find informative. Since this is the semiauto handgun forum, I approached it from that perspective. If we're considering long arms, that is a completely different situation and you should post your question in a "long gun" type forum. http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De..._FAQ/index.htm Good luck. Please keep us updated on your decisions. __________________ "A man can be destroyed but not defeated". Ernest Hemingway Protect our 2nd Amendment Rights -- Join the NRA Last edited by Coltman 77; October 17, 2009 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Additional Info.

October 17, 2009, 04:39 PM	#8
comn-cents Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pac.N.W. Posts: 1,804	I say a hi cap 9mm would work for me. I can shoot it faster than a 40 or 45 and I get more bullets. There is not magic one shot knock someone on their butt handgun round. Why do people seem to think that it is true? Like you said getting out of the situation would be my main goal as well. Being able to shoot back, possible one handed because you are driving is made easier with a 9. I have a cz & a sig that holds 20 rounds. With good modern hollow points they are no less affective than a 40 or 45. __________________ Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!

October 17, 2009, 06:41 PM	#9
shepherddogs Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 1,007	I would disagree with Comn-cents and choose a 45 or 10mm ideally unless you are trying to defeat body armor. Then possibly a 9mm with FMJ. Forgive the stereotyping but people in the US tend to think of Pakistanis as all bearded men in white robes with AKs. Not equipped with body armor. Maybe you can enlighten us as to the situation in your country. Last edited by shepherddogs; October 17, 2009 at 06:50 PM.

October 17, 2009, 01:53 PM	#2
rsxr22 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Youngstown, OH Posts: 1,825	i would probably keep either hi-cap .40 or .45's in the car. I am not to familiar with the situation in Pakistan, but ignorantly i would imply that more people have ak's and various rifles over there, so if you had a handgun, i'd want a caliber that would put em on their back with one shot

October 17, 2009, 03:14 PM	#3
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	rsxr......you got the point. Idea is to put them down with minimum number of shot- ideally ONE. Rogue elements always come after you with AK. I know that any handgun vs AK is underguned. However, not having anything is even worse. Atleast, I want to be able to put up a quick and forcefull response while escaping to better position.

October 17, 2009, 04:18 PM	#4
rsxr22 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Youngstown, OH Posts: 1,825	ya if i wouldnt have read your entire post, i probably would have said something else, but after reading and seeing you were in Pakistan-i changed my mind. Over in the US, we dont deal normally with those kinds of issues and i sometimes carry a .380.

October 17, 2009, 04:36 PM	#7
IdahoG36 Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 2,993	Given the current situation in Pakistan, if it is legal for you to do so, you should carry a rifle in your vehicle. I would not want to face people armed with AK47s using just a handgun for defense.

October 17, 2009, 06:49 PM	#10
TBT Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: Pittsburgh Pa Posts: 971	Minimum would be 9mm.

October 17, 2009, 06:59 PM	#11
PSP Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2006 Location: Bowling Green Virginia Posts: 4,487	They are all lethal. The gun you are proficient with, no matter the caliber, is more likely to provide better security than one carried simply because of a caliber. Last edited by PSP; October 17, 2009 at 07:14 PM.

October 17, 2009, 07:04 PM	#12
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	How about a .30 Tokarev? Good if you have to shoot thru a car door, windshield, soft body armor, etc. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

October 18, 2009, 12:38 AM	#13
DasFriek Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2009 Posts: 891	Minimum is a high cap 9mm Preferred is 10mm G20 If available a 1911 with a .460 Rowland conversion and 10 spare 10 round mags. In the USA a single stack 9mm is about as low of a caliber for SD. But in Pakistan id have a gun strapped to every part of my body so it could supplement my body armor. Good Luck there man and be safe,and im glad im not with you. Unless your Military then i do wish i could be next to you and help.

October 18, 2009, 05:24 PM	#14
LarryFlew Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2009 Location: Minnesota CZ fan Posts: 902	Also depends on ammo availability in your country. Guessing 9mm is the easiest to find.

October 18, 2009, 09:04 PM	#15
cavnamvet Member Join Date: February 6, 2008 Posts: 28	Get a glock 17 or 19 9mm and all the extra mags & ammo you can find.

October 19, 2009, 12:33 AM	#16
bakon Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2009 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 294	For where you live...A US Marine

October 19, 2009, 03:52 AM	#17
LordofWar Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Location: Pakistan Posts: 646	bakon, And who do you think would protect the US Marine? LOL

October 19, 2009, 05:27 AM	#18
Elvishead Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Las vegas, NV Posts: 3,397	You should get what the easiest ammo is available. 9mm? No doubt in my mind, a high cap (12-20) 9mm, no questions asked. Even if you used it to keep heads down, that would be the way to go so you can get out of danger.

October 19, 2009, 10:07 AM	#19
cougar gt-e Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2009 Posts: 1,003	High cap in a 40 or 45. Modern 40's have 14-16 in the mag (my Xdm is 16+1) and modern double stack 45's are 12-14 in the mag.

October 19, 2009, 10:16 AM	#20
DaveTec Member Join Date: October 8, 2009 Posts: 50	Firepower, if I were you, I'd carpool with LordofWar!!!

October 19, 2009, 03:42 PM	#22
shooter_from_show-me Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 231	No less than a 9mm for me also. __________________ When the government fears the people, you have liberty. When the people fear the government, you have tyranny. ~ Thomas Jefferson NRA Life Member

October 19, 2009, 04:14 PM	#23
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	I am going to guess that you will have to pay a very steep tax on any high quality handgun ammo. I like Gold Dot or DPX. Carry what ever you can feed with quality ammo and you can shoot well. If I remember correctly you recently bought a GP100 .357? That is a fine revolver, with 158 grain bullets you will get good penetration. I am sure you have some Glocks or a HK USP. Those are fine defensive handguns when loaded with quality ammo. Caliber is not so much the issue as is the skill of the shooter and the quality of his weapon. ...Well, caliber of 9mm and up... If it was me I would carry the AK-74SU or the M4... Police hassles be damned. I would rather be delayed than under gunned. Be safe. __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

October 19, 2009, 04:27 PM	#24
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	As already posted, least would be highest cap. 9mm. IMO, best would be highest cap. 45acp I could get with as many spare mags as possible in whichever I chose.