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July 18, 2012, 07:34 AM | #1 |
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Is it legal to mail a personally owned firearm?
This may sound silly, but if I want to have my friend who's hanging onto my rifle send it to me, will he need to go through an FFL and have it sent to someone with an FFL near me, or is it possible for him to mail it to me normally?
I'm pretty sure you he'll have to go through an FFL to legally have it sent to me, but I'm not entirely sure, and google searches have not yielded a satisfactory answer. (I'm probably wording the question poorly) |
July 18, 2012, 07:41 AM | #2 |
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Short answer: If HE has custody of it, it is NOT yours. You have transferred it to him. If you want him to ship HIS firearm to you, it needs to be done thru a FFL, and you will be required to do a transfer at that FFL just like any other buyer.
There is no such thing as "loaning" or "storing with a friend" in the firearms laws. When you left it in the custody of another person it was legally the same as selling it to him (from a firearms law standpoint). Willie . |
July 18, 2012, 08:34 AM | #3 |
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Thank you, so I will have to have it shipped through an FFL in order to have it legally "transferred" to me correct?
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July 18, 2012, 09:00 AM | #4 | |
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At least that’s how I understand it. I could be wrong. |
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July 18, 2012, 09:37 AM | #5 |
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Is this interstate or intrastate?
Intrastate, I have mailed rifles to individuals. Interstate, I have to send to his FFL |
July 18, 2012, 10:51 AM | #6 |
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The only time that I can think of, when you can legally ship firearms interstate without using an FFL, is when you are shipping them to yourself.
I.e.: You are going on a hunting trip to Montana, but certain circumstances preclude you from traveling with the firearm(s). You can legally ship the firearm(s) to yourself at the destination. The ATF's suggestion for the recipient's (your temporary) address is in the form of: YOU in care of Joe's Hunting Service 843 Hunting Lodge Road Destination, MT 59998
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July 18, 2012, 06:33 PM | #7 |
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You can also ship interstate without going through an FFL when you ship a firearm back to the manufacturer for repair, and when they ship it back to you. (Although maybe the law considers the manufacturer to an FFL, I don't know about that.) I recently returned a modern revolver directly to Smith and Wesson using a prepaid shipping label that they sent me. When they finished the repair, it was shipped back to me without going through an FFL at my end.
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July 18, 2012, 06:42 PM | #8 | |
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And they can ship the gun back to you directly because they have FFLs and the law specifically permits it.
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July 18, 2012, 06:47 PM | #9 | |
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July 19, 2012, 09:20 AM | #10 |
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Thank you everyone, that clears things up a lot. Good to know so that I don't get tossed into the clink or fined big time for money that I simply don't have at the moment lol.
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July 19, 2012, 08:49 PM | #11 | |
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July 19, 2012, 11:13 PM | #12 |
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"You can loan someone a gun for sporting purposes who is not a resident of your state"
That means "hand it to him, let him shoot it, and get it back on the spot". This has nothing to do with: (A) leaving it behind for <days, weeks, months, years> or (B) the question posed by the OP. Willie . |
July 19, 2012, 11:29 PM | #13 |
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To expand a bit on what Willie Sutton wrote and provide citations:
18 USC 922(a)(5) prohibits a resident of one State from transferring, selling, trading, giving, transporting, or delivering any firearm to any person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe lives in another State. But the statute makes an exception for a temporary loan or rental of a gun for a lawful sporting purpose. So if your buddy is visiting you from another State, you may loan him a gun so he can go target shooting or hunting with. Or an outfitter may rent a gun to a client from another State to participate in a guided hunt. But 18 USC 922(a)(3) prohibits any person from transporting into or receiving in the State where he lives a gun obtained in another State. There's no exception here for a loan. So for example, you can loan your buddy visiting here from another State a gun, but he can't take it home with him (nor could you ship a gun to him in his home State "on loan"). Your letting him take the loaned gun home to another State, or you making an interstate loan, would violate 18 USC 922(a)(3).
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July 20, 2012, 03:27 AM | #14 | |
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July 20, 2012, 06:38 AM | #15 | ||
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Since you want the whole federal law story on interstate transfers of firearms (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency), here it is: [1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.). [2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you. [3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence. [4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies. [5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives. [6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3). Here's what the statutes say:
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July 20, 2012, 07:42 AM | #16 |
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Thanks Frank.
Real world example of "loans for sporting purposes". A friend of mine from England wanted to take a 250 course at Gunsite. I offer him the loan of my old 1911 as well as mags, holster, etc. How do we do this? He's a non resident alien, and cannot be the recipient of a transfer of a firearm. Answer: I ship the old Colt to Gunsite, who receives it as a FFL. They do some tune up work and then they put it in their vault. When my friend comes to Gunsite, he is issued the .45 *on a daily basis* to shoot on the ranges, and at the end of the day he returns it to Cory and it gets put back into the safe. He does NOT take it to the motel at night, he does NOT carry it off of the range for lunch, and he most certainly does NOT mail it back to me after his course is done. At the end of the course, the FFL returns it to me via FEDEX. This is legal as the FFL is held as a Gunsmith and the shipment is back to the original owner. As for gunsmithing, I had a new ejector installed and a loose front sight re silver-soldered on at the Smithy before it was "rigorously test fired" by my friend taking the 250. That's a "Loan" for sporting purposes. Willie . Last edited by Willie Sutton; July 20, 2012 at 07:48 AM. |
July 20, 2012, 07:58 AM | #17 |
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I am sure an ffl would be required if there is a transfer of ownership, but I thought it was legal to ship the firearm without intent to transfer, so long as it is made inert by shipping the gun without the bolt if its a rifle, without a cylinder if its a revolver or without the slide if its a pistol. and the remaining peice shipped seperately.
At least that is how most firearm companies ask you to ship your firearm to them for repairs. and how they send it back to you. |
July 20, 2012, 10:43 AM | #18 | ||
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[1] Shipping the gun is a transfer. Transfer means a change of possession, not just ownership. Note that the federal statutes refer to --
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July 20, 2012, 11:02 AM | #19 | |
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Springfield Armory, Smith & Wesson, Taurus, and Rock Island Armory never once asked me to do this for warranty or smithing work.
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July 20, 2012, 11:41 AM | #20 | |
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July 20, 2012, 11:59 AM | #21 |
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north american arms did for me once it has been a good many years ago though. Maybe laws are stricter or more enforced now or something.
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July 20, 2012, 01:07 PM | #22 | |
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