All-in-one sporting clay gun for a woman?

Cowtown44 · October 22, 2009, 03:48 PM

All,

Sorry for the general nature of the question. I would like to introduce my wife to clay shooting (type unkown now, probably trrap and skeet). She already shoots rifles and handguns but has no shotgun experience. If their "a" gun or "family" of guns to start with? 12g or 20? Money is somewhat of an issue so I'd like to start with only one gun. Thanks.

BigJimP · October 22, 2009, 04:16 PM

Lots of options ...

I would suggest a lesson from a local instructor / let them supply the guns - see if you can settle on a gun that fits her. A lot of ranges have rental guns / or guys may let you borrow a gun - to help you out.

Don't buy her a gun until she's ready to understand what she likes /what really fits her.

For new shooters I use a couple of different guns / especially for ladies ( including my granddaughters, etc ):

1. A semi-auto 20ga / something light ( around 6 1/2 lbs ) so they're strong enough to swing the gun. My preference is the Benelli Super Sport at around $ 1,800 / but there are a lot of gas guns - Beretta, Remington, etc for around $ 1,000 that are good options too.

2. I use a 28ga O/U / mine are Browning Citori XS Skeet models - retailing around $ 3K. But 28ga guns / and especially shells are very expensive unless you get into reloading. A 28ga is probably not a smart budget option - and inexpensive O/U's are prone to all kinds of problems in all gagues. But if a friend has a 28ga you can borrow - its a good option for a new shooter.

3. A 20ga O/U - and there are lots of them around used / but don't buy a gun until she's ready to know what she likes. / or maybe a 20ga pump gun - like a Browning BPS Hunter model is a pretty good option.

4. If she has more upper body strength - maybe consider a 12ga / but keep the loads light, so recoil doesn't ruin it for her. 7/8 oz loads at 1150 fps is a smart choice on 12ga ammo for a new shooter in a 12ga.

Make the outing fun / when she's had enough / shut it down. Shoot station 7 on Skeet / or lock a Trap into one position .... help her understand the gun mount, see the target, don't look at the barrel, feel the lead ... the concept of shooting a "shot column pattern" like a handful of gravel you would throw at something vs a "bullet" going downrange ... lots of good DVD's out there too.

But start with a lesson / some loaner guns .....go slow...

Cowtown44 · October 22, 2009, 06:27 PM

BigJimP

Take it slow has always been sage advice. It worked for the rifle and handgun training. She's a new shooter to all areas within the last 18 months. How does one go about finding a qualified instructor? Are there certifications and the like or just word of mouth?

BigJimP · October 22, 2009, 06:51 PM

There are certifications / Level 1, level 2, etc ......but I've seen a number of certified instructors that I just didn't care for.

You may find some advertising in your local gun club newsletters / some of the bigger gun clubs have pro shops / there are big name instructors available in some areas ( Todd Bender, Bobby Fowler Jr, etc ) and you can find them and others on NSSA web site, etc

http://www.mynsca.com/CMS/NSCADisplayPage.aspx

Reputation is one thing / but it needs to be someone you can relate to. In my area, its not the best shooters that make the best instructors for new shooters ...... It needs to be a good personal fit / and someone that doesn't push too hard / or get too wound up in advanced details ... Asking around / see if the same name comes up more than once is good / then meet with them or talk to them on the phone at least.

Technosavant · October 22, 2009, 07:43 PM

If you want a light, soft shooting semiauto and you aren't afraid to spend the cash, the Remington 105 CTi II might be worth a look.

I just got one and it functions perfectly and comes with a few shims to adjust the length of pull. The first edition guns had some hiccups, but I don't think you're going to find a softer shooting 12 gauge, especially one that's this light.

Dave McC · October 22, 2009, 08:43 PM

A couple things, learned from experience....

A lesson from a qualified instructor is a gift of great value. Spouses make poor teachers, trust me on that.

A gas auto, such as the Beretta 381, Remington 1100,etc, has a lot going for it. Soft recoil, after market stuff like better recoil pads and custom stocks mean greater shooter comfort and effectiveness. A good choice for a new shooter, if it fits.

And they last longer than we do if cared for as needed.

You should let HER pick out her gun. Guide but do not select.

HTH....

olddrum1 · October 22, 2009, 11:46 PM

If I understand this correctly, you do not currently shoot clays correct?

Cowtown44 · October 22, 2009, 11:48 PM

I've found it far more difficult to "test drive" these shotguns than any other type of gun. Our indoor range had 25+ handguns and 4 rifles to rent and fire.

Cowtown44 · October 22, 2009, 11:50 PM

Yes, currently she is not shooting clays. I've had some experience with trap and will get back into the sport soon. But, I know it will be a longer lasting sport if I can get her hooked too.

Waterengineer · October 23, 2009, 10:21 AM

Lots of good advice already, and.......

......This is the truth as Dave said:

A lesson from a qualified instructor is a gift of great value. Spouses make poor teachers, trust me on that.

You should let HER pick out her gun. Guide but do not select.

BigJimP · October 23, 2009, 11:36 AM

As an example a Level 2 Instructor in my area - and a good guy - offers a "new shooter special " 2 hour lesson one on one for $ 125. He provides the guns, it includes 50 targets, 50 shells - and glasses, ear protection etc - all you need is a good attitude / outdoor clothing.

He starts with some safety stuff, eye dominance, basics on mounting, etc - and goes right thru it all in about 30 min / then spends 1 1/2 hours on the Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays ranges / a debrief when its over.

zippy13 · October 23, 2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterengineer

You should let HER pick out her gun. Guide but do not select.

Good advice. May I add that experience will greatly aid in her decision. Many's the time a new shooter winds up with a first, or entry level, gun just to gain enough experience to learn just what gun will eventually suit them best. I think you'll find most target shooters, who've been at it a while, aren't still using their initial gun(s).

Cowtown44 · October 23, 2009, 05:54 PM

Hey Zippy,

Your description of the mechanics of gun purchases is spot on. Now I know why my collection is doubling with every new discipline I try. Mind you, selling any gun in my collection is out of the question.

Cowtown44 · October 24, 2009, 08:00 AM

So, I've taken the forum's advice to heart. My research leads me to believe that gun fit is of critical importance. Is there a "go to" source on this subject? Thanks.

BigJimP · October 24, 2009, 10:12 AM

There are a few books / DVD's etc - but I don't know of one book that really addresses the issue. But the issue is the shotgun needs to hit where you look. To do that, you need to shoot it at a pattern board. Its tough to do in a shop unless you have a lot of experience / but when you look down the rib if it has a mid-bead - then the mid rib bead and the front bead should be stacked like a figure 8. You need to raise or lower the comb - to get that bead to stack like a figure 8 / if the gun has an adjustable comb, its easy / if it doesn't it means a stick on comb pad.

grip size is personal / some guns have a "palm swell" - and if it fits its probably ok. Some guns are smaller / some bigger ...

length of pull - there are indications, laying the gun in crook of elbow / to the pad of your trigger finger - gives you an idea. Some guns like Browning have about 1/4" of adjustment on trigger / move it a little forward or a little back. But changing recoil pads can be easy to do / to reduce or increase it a little too.

length of barrel - is personal. In general, shorter barrels and lighter guns - swing fast / maybe too fast - and with lighter guns some of us tend to "snap off" our swing vs getting a good follow thru on swing. (in a shotgun, the shot starts as you pull the trigger / it ends with follow thru - if you pull trigger and stop a gun, its usually a lost target ).. Heavier gun help with the follow thru. Longer barrels give a longer sight plane - and that helps too. But its a combination of all those things / and the balance of the gun / I like the balance between my hands / not too far forward so its nose heavy /not too far back so its butt heavy ...

a pump gun or semi-auto with a 28" barrel / is a gun that is the same overall length as an O/U with 30" barrels ( there is about a 2" difference in the length of the receiver on a pump or semi-auto ).

But again / try a lot of guns -- don't buy anything yet.

Couzin · October 24, 2009, 11:43 AM

Cowtown44: I'm going to bet that your handle makes you from Fort Worth. Ken English out at Alpine Range was a great instructor for my wife - very patient with her. The folks out at Fort Worth Gun Club are a really great bunch of guys as well and I bet there is someone there that will be glad to help. If you want to wait, the Grand Prairie Gun Club has a super beginner skeet class (free, you just pay for the regular round costs) that runs for about six weeks starting late March or early May.

As pointed out - your wife need to 'fit' the gun. My wife found, on her own, a Beretta 3901 Target RL in 12ga with an adjustable comb that fits her perfectly and is recoil manageable. We had several different ones before that and there was always some little something about it that didn't 'work'. She really likes this Beretta and, while a little pricey ($850.00 OTD), it is something that she can use in a variety of shooting sports and it will outlast either of us.

Cowtown44 · October 24, 2009, 07:40 PM

Couzin,

No such luck unfortunately. I'm trapped in California. But, I do appreciate you contribution. I'd love to move to TX someday.

I found a local sporting clays range that has certified instructors for about 50/hour plus guns at 20/rental, so I'll start there.

BigJimP · October 26, 2009, 12:43 PM

good plan.

Cowtown44 · October 31, 2009, 10:44 PM

I handled a 20g Citori 525 Sporting in a 30" barrel today. Wow. It felt great. This could be a good start for the wife (and for me). It reminds me of a Simpson's episode where Homer buys Marge a bowling ball for her birthday with his initial engraved on the ball.

But, I will stick by the group's advice. No purchases until we see a professional.

October 22, 2009, 03:48 PM	#1
Cowtown44 Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 46	All-in-one sporting clay gun for a woman? All, Sorry for the general nature of the question. I would like to introduce my wife to clay shooting (type unkown now, probably trrap and skeet). She already shoots rifles and handguns but has no shotgun experience. If their "a" gun or "family" of guns to start with? 12g or 20? Money is somewhat of an issue so I'd like to start with only one gun. Thanks.

October 22, 2009, 11:48 PM	#8
Cowtown44 Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 46	Test driving is the issue.. I've found it far more difficult to "test drive" these shotguns than any other type of gun. Our indoor range had 25+ handguns and 4 rifles to rent and fire.

October 24, 2009, 08:00 AM	#14
Cowtown44 Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 46	Gun fit resources? So, I've taken the forum's advice to heart. My research leads me to believe that gun fit is of critical importance. Is there a "go to" source on this subject? Thanks.

October 22, 2009, 04:16 PM	#2
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Lots of options ... I would suggest a lesson from a local instructor / let them supply the guns - see if you can settle on a gun that fits her. A lot of ranges have rental guns / or guys may let you borrow a gun - to help you out. Don't buy her a gun until she's ready to understand what she likes /what really fits her. For new shooters I use a couple of different guns / especially for ladies ( including my granddaughters, etc ): 1. A semi-auto 20ga / something light ( around 6 1/2 lbs ) so they're strong enough to swing the gun. My preference is the Benelli Super Sport at around $ 1,800 / but there are a lot of gas guns - Beretta, Remington, etc for around $ 1,000 that are good options too. 2. I use a 28ga O/U / mine are Browning Citori XS Skeet models - retailing around $ 3K. But 28ga guns / and especially shells are very expensive unless you get into reloading. A 28ga is probably not a smart budget option - and inexpensive O/U's are prone to all kinds of problems in all gagues. But if a friend has a 28ga you can borrow - its a good option for a new shooter. 3. A 20ga O/U - and there are lots of them around used / but don't buy a gun until she's ready to know what she likes. / or maybe a 20ga pump gun - like a Browning BPS Hunter model is a pretty good option. 4. If she has more upper body strength - maybe consider a 12ga / but keep the loads light, so recoil doesn't ruin it for her. 7/8 oz loads at 1150 fps is a smart choice on 12ga ammo for a new shooter in a 12ga. Make the outing fun / when she's had enough / shut it down. Shoot station 7 on Skeet / or lock a Trap into one position .... help her understand the gun mount, see the target, don't look at the barrel, feel the lead ... the concept of shooting a "shot column pattern" like a handful of gravel you would throw at something vs a "bullet" going downrange ... lots of good DVD's out there too. But start with a lesson / some loaner guns .....go slow...

October 22, 2009, 06:27 PM	#3
Cowtown44 Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 46	BigJimP Take it slow has always been sage advice. It worked for the rifle and handgun training. She's a new shooter to all areas within the last 18 months. How does one go about finding a qualified instructor? Are there certifications and the like or just word of mouth?

October 22, 2009, 06:51 PM	#4
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	There are certifications / Level 1, level 2, etc ......but I've seen a number of certified instructors that I just didn't care for. You may find some advertising in your local gun club newsletters / some of the bigger gun clubs have pro shops / there are big name instructors available in some areas ( Todd Bender, Bobby Fowler Jr, etc ) and you can find them and others on NSSA web site, etc http://www.mynsca.com/CMS/NSCADisplayPage.aspx Reputation is one thing / but it needs to be someone you can relate to. In my area, its not the best shooters that make the best instructors for new shooters ...... It needs to be a good personal fit / and someone that doesn't push too hard / or get too wound up in advanced details ... Asking around / see if the same name comes up more than once is good / then meet with them or talk to them on the phone at least.

October 22, 2009, 07:43 PM	#5
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	If you want a light, soft shooting semiauto and you aren't afraid to spend the cash, the Remington 105 CTi II might be worth a look. I just got one and it functions perfectly and comes with a few shims to adjust the length of pull. The first edition guns had some hiccups, but I don't think you're going to find a softer shooting 12 gauge, especially one that's this light.

October 22, 2009, 08:43 PM	#6
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	A couple things, learned from experience.... A lesson from a qualified instructor is a gift of great value. Spouses make poor teachers, trust me on that. A gas auto, such as the Beretta 381, Remington 1100,etc, has a lot going for it. Soft recoil, after market stuff like better recoil pads and custom stocks mean greater shooter comfort and effectiveness. A good choice for a new shooter, if it fits. And they last longer than we do if cared for as needed. You should let HER pick out her gun. Guide but do not select. HTH....

October 22, 2009, 11:46 PM	#7
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	If I understand this correctly, you do not currently shoot clays correct?

October 22, 2009, 11:50 PM	#9
Cowtown44 Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 46	Yes, currently she is not shooting clays. I've had some experience with trap and will get back into the sport soon. But, I know it will be a longer lasting sport if I can get her hooked too.

October 23, 2009, 10:21 AM	#10
Waterengineer Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2006 Location: Aurora, CO and Palm Beach, FL Posts: 863	Lots of good advice already, and....... ......This is the truth as Dave said: A lesson from a qualified instructor is a gift of great value. Spouses make poor teachers, trust me on that. You should let HER pick out her gun. Guide but do not select.

October 23, 2009, 11:36 AM	#11
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	As an example a Level 2 Instructor in my area - and a good guy - offers a "new shooter special " 2 hour lesson one on one for $ 125. He provides the guns, it includes 50 targets, 50 shells - and glasses, ear protection etc - all you need is a good attitude / outdoor clothing. He starts with some safety stuff, eye dominance, basics on mounting, etc - and goes right thru it all in about 30 min / then spends 1 1/2 hours on the Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays ranges / a debrief when its over.

October 23, 2009, 05:54 PM	#13
Cowtown44 Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 46	Hey Zippy, Your description of the mechanics of gun purchases is spot on. Now I know why my collection is doubling with every new discipline I try. Mind you, selling any gun in my collection is out of the question.

October 24, 2009, 10:12 AM	#15
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	There are a few books / DVD's etc - but I don't know of one book that really addresses the issue. But the issue is the shotgun needs to hit where you look. To do that, you need to shoot it at a pattern board. Its tough to do in a shop unless you have a lot of experience / but when you look down the rib if it has a mid-bead - then the mid rib bead and the front bead should be stacked like a figure 8. You need to raise or lower the comb - to get that bead to stack like a figure 8 / if the gun has an adjustable comb, its easy / if it doesn't it means a stick on comb pad. grip size is personal / some guns have a "palm swell" - and if it fits its probably ok. Some guns are smaller / some bigger ... length of pull - there are indications, laying the gun in crook of elbow / to the pad of your trigger finger - gives you an idea. Some guns like Browning have about 1/4" of adjustment on trigger / move it a little forward or a little back. But changing recoil pads can be easy to do / to reduce or increase it a little too. length of barrel - is personal. In general, shorter barrels and lighter guns - swing fast / maybe too fast - and with lighter guns some of us tend to "snap off" our swing vs getting a good follow thru on swing. (in a shotgun, the shot starts as you pull the trigger / it ends with follow thru - if you pull trigger and stop a gun, its usually a lost target ).. Heavier gun help with the follow thru. Longer barrels give a longer sight plane - and that helps too. But its a combination of all those things / and the balance of the gun / I like the balance between my hands / not too far forward so its nose heavy /not too far back so its butt heavy ... a pump gun or semi-auto with a 28" barrel / is a gun that is the same overall length as an O/U with 30" barrels ( there is about a 2" difference in the length of the receiver on a pump or semi-auto ). But again / try a lot of guns -- don't buy anything yet.

October 24, 2009, 11:43 AM	#16
Couzin Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2006 Location: Terrell, Texas Posts: 240	Cowtown44: I'm going to bet that your handle makes you from Fort Worth. Ken English out at Alpine Range was a great instructor for my wife - very patient with her. The folks out at Fort Worth Gun Club are a really great bunch of guys as well and I bet there is someone there that will be glad to help. If you want to wait, the Grand Prairie Gun Club has a super beginner skeet class (free, you just pay for the regular round costs) that runs for about six weeks starting late March or early May. As pointed out - your wife need to 'fit' the gun. My wife found, on her own, a Beretta 3901 Target RL in 12ga with an adjustable comb that fits her perfectly and is recoil manageable. We had several different ones before that and there was always some little something about it that didn't 'work'. She really likes this Beretta and, while a little pricey ($850.00 OTD), it is something that she can use in a variety of shooting sports and it will outlast either of us.

October 24, 2009, 07:40 PM	#17
Cowtown44 Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 46	Couzin, No such luck unfortunately. I'm trapped in California. But, I do appreciate you contribution. I'd love to move to TX someday. I found a local sporting clays range that has certified instructors for about 50/hour plus guns at 20/rental, so I'll start there.

October 26, 2009, 12:43 PM	#18
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	good plan.

October 31, 2009, 10:44 PM	#19
Cowtown44 Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 46	I handled a 20g Citori 525 Sporting in a 30" barrel today. Wow. It felt great. This could be a good start for the wife (and for me). It reminds me of a Simpson's episode where Homer buys Marge a bowling ball for her birthday with his initial engraved on the ball. But, I will stick by the group's advice. No purchases until we see a professional.