Good load for 158 gr 357 ?

[jski]

I’m reloading 357 rounds using Berry’s plated bullets in the classic 158 gr. I looked at Alliant’s website for Unique and saw charges ranging from 6 to 7.7 grains of powder for 158 gr bullets of various ilks, none of which are fully jacketed/plated?

Suggestions for Unique loads for 158 gr Berry’s bullets?

BTW, I’m looking for a charge that pushes these bullets at around 1100 fps.

[mikejonestkd]

For plated bullets you can generally use lead bullet data.
one bit of caution- do not apply a firm roll crimp.

roughly 6.3-6.5 grains should get you near your target velocity.

[AgedWarrior]

7.0 always worked for 158 cast lead bullets for me.

Ah, I missed the 1100 fps last line. About 6.5 grains Unique will do it just fine.

[jski]

The data seems to suggest that jacketed/plated bullets require greater charges. I assume that’s because lead (in a cast bullet) has greater lubricity than copper.

6 gr for 158 gr Speer LSWC
7.7 gr for 158 gr Speer GDHP

[oley55]

The data seems to suggest that jacketed/plated bullets require greater charges. I assume that’s because lead (in a cast bullet) has greater lubricity than copper.

1. as already mentioned above and universally stated by plated bullet manufacturers, "use lead bullet velocities".
2. bullet lubricity is not the defining factor. Jacketed bullets call for higher loads because they can go faster. Lead/plated bullets fail and/or lead up the barrel if pushed too fast. (there are of course always exceptions.)

When looking at your load data, take note of the velocities listed. Although a jacketed bullet can be pushed at the same lower velocities as lead, a lead bullet can not generally be pushed at normal jacketed speeds.

[oley55]

Load data from any load manual or website can be used. Full-metal jacketed, lead bullet, or plated bullet load data can be used as long as the following standards are adhered to:

The data contains the correct grain weight of bullet.
Berry's max recommended velocity is not exceeded. (This info is displayed on bullet boxes and product webpages.)

Standard Plate Bullets Max Velocity: 1,250 fps.
Thick-Plate Bullets (TP) Max Velocity: 1,500 fps.

Do not over-crimp the bullet. Crimping so tight that bullet deformation occurs, or plating is separated causing visible exposure of the lead core will cause tumbling, key-holing, and reduced accuracy.

Load data containing bullet descriptions such as Plated (P,) Berry's Bullet (BERB,) Total Metal Jacket (TMJ,) Copper Plated (CP,) or CPJ (Copper Plated Jacket,) refers to plated bullet data.

[Nick_C_S]

I really wish plated bullet manufacturers would stop giving maximum velocity cautions. Plating breakdown is a function of pressure, not velocity. It oversimplifies the condition to the point of being a useless number.

The point remains however, plated bullets are not jacketed bullets and can not be driven nearly has hard as jacketed bullets. Basically, plated bullets should be considered a "clean" alternative to lead bullets; not an economical alternative to jacketed bullets.

jski, you're looking for 1100 f/s. May we have your gun's barrel length?

I load and shoot a lot of plated bullets; especially 38, 357, and 45 ACP. My 357/158 plated bullet of choice is an X-treme SWC. I settled on 7.0gn of Unique years ago. Since then, I have chronographed the loading several times.

Three times (over a few years) I tested the loading (same recipe, different lots) through my 4" Smith 686 and got 1112 f/s, 1103 f/s, and 1120 f/s (10-shot samples).

I believe 7.0gn of Unique is probably where you wanna be. It's a good shooting round. Clearly more potent than 38+P; but clearly more tame than full-throttle magnums. I particularly like shooting it through my 3" 686 - but haven't chronographed it. I would suspect about 1040 f/s through the 3".

BTW, this loading pushes the plated bullet to the edge. I get a nice orange tint in the barrel after shooting a lot of them. But it cleans out (and much easier than lead).

Since I load a lot of plated bullets for 38 and 357; I purchased a taper crimp die for them. If you load a lot of plated bullets, get a taper crimp die. Roll crimping tears up the plating by literally scraping off the plating as the bullet exits the case mouth. I use RCBS. I guess Redding makes a "profile crimp die" that taper crimps when set properly. I hear it's a good product, but I have no personal experience with it.

[Real Gun]

Originally Posted by Nick_C_S

I really wish plated bullet manufacturers would stop giving maximum velocity cautions. Plating breakdown is a function of pressure, not velocity. It oversimplifies the condition to the point of being a useless number.

The point remains however, plated bullets are not jacketed bullets and can not be driven nearly has hard as jacketed bullets. Basically, plated bullets should be considered a "clean" alternative to lead bullets; not an economical alternative to jacketed bullets.

jski, you're looking for 1100 f/s. May we have your gun's barrel length?

I load and shoot a lot of plated bullets; especially 38, 357, and 45 ACP. My 357/158 plated bullet of choice is an X-treme SWC. I settled on 7.0gn of Unique years ago. Since then, I have chronographed the loading several times.

Three times (over a few years) I tested the loading (same recipe, different lots) through my 4" Smith 686 and got 1112 f/s, 1103 f/s, and 1120 f/s (10-shot samples).

I believe 7.0gn of Unique is probably where you wanna be. It's a good shooting round. Clearly more potent than 38+P; but clearly more tame than full-throttle magnums. I particularly like shooting it through my 3" 686 - but haven't chronographed it. I would suspect about 1040 f/s through the 3".

BTW, this loading pushes the plated bullet to the edge. I get a nice orange tint in the barrel after shooting a lot of them. But it cleans out (and much easier than lead).

Since I load a lot of plated bullets for 38 and 357; I purchased a taper crimp die for them. If you load a lot of plated bullets, get a taper crimp die. Roll crimping tears up the plating by literally scraping off the plating as the bullet exits the case mouth. I use RCBS. I guess Redding makes a "profile crimp die" that taper crimps when set properly. I hear it's a good product, but I have no personal experience with it.

Velocity is commonly measurable and will tell the tale as usefully proportional to pressure, while pressure as the real indicator requires strict adherence to load data or actually owning a test barrel.

[jetinteriorguy]

For crimping Cu plated bullets the Lee collet crimp die works great. It's more tolerant with brass of different lengths and even a fairly light crimp is sufficient. One way to test for too much crimp is to load a few dummy rounds and then extract them with an inertia bullet puller. Inspect them to be sure the plating isn't compromised, if it is lighten it up until good. With the Berrys heavy plate you can do a pretty substantial crimp without any issues. I like these bullets because I can load them for good performance in both my revolvers and still use them in my Henry without exceeding their limit.

[Real Gun]

From numbers I see from Alliant and what I load and shoot personally, I believe 6.5 gr would be the max load for plated. I use it with lead (10% antimony) and regard it as a mainstay load in my model 19. That is halfway between their max for lead and max for JHP. It should be close enough to your 1100 fps without moving to a slower burning powder. There I would be using AA#7.

[rclark]

6.5g Unique will get you where you want to be out of a 6 1/2" barrel. My chronograph showed 1152fps for 158g SWC, standard CCI primer. As said about treat plated bullets as lead bullets. Do not heavy crimp. A light crimp is all you need.