Very Disturbing Video -- Victim mentality

[Michael A. Le Lack]

75 posts to a FAKE video?:barf:

[garryc]

Since when did sexual assault become bad manners? If someone did likewise to your daughter/sister/mother/wife what would you do?

[David Armstrong]

I would speak to the person, demand an apology, perhaps even contact the police. But to commit a felonious assault on a high school kid for that kind of nonsense, as I said, really doesn't seem to be "honorable."

[garryc]

I'd do it again, in the same situation, for the same reasons.

My sense of honor and action comes from my dad. My aunt says he changed in the Army. Dad was in the Eighth Army Ranger Company during Korea and apparently fought on Hill's 222 and 205, which was a meat grinder. Dad doesn't talk about it, all I know came from Mom and my Aunts.

[MikeGoob]

why do you think its fake? because someone put rap music to it?

[Apone]

I'm not real sure that breaking someone's nose and orbital for bad manners would qualify as doing the honorable thing.

I do. Sometimes the honorable thing involves violence to others, if you can't see that, then I hope to God you and everyone that thinks like you never joins our military.

[Creature]

If you truly desire to know what techniques for handling themselves I have taught my sons I will freely give you the information in private, but I don't feel it is the business of everyone on TFI, Creature.

I genuinely wanted to know...but since you dont feel its in TFL best interest to learn your technique on how to deal with bullies, I'll pass.

[David Armstrong]

Sometimes the honorable thing involves violence to others, if you can't see that, then I hope to God you and everyone that thinks like you never joins our military.

I would suggest the honorable thing, almost by definition, is not going to be sucker-punching an unsuspecting person and committing a felonious assault on them. As for the military, I did my bit already. If your idea of honorable is committing felonies, I hope you never join our military.

[HKFan9]

That video looks like a fake joke to me.

[Apone]

I genuinely wanted to know...but since you dont feel its in TFL best interest to learn your technique on how to deal with bullies, I'll pass.

It's hard to determine intent when messages are read as opposed to heard, and I still can't determine even with your follow-up post sincerity or debasement. I went into significantly more detail in my second post to this effect, explaining that I was speaking of teaching a mindset that did not tolerate bullies or bullying behavior.

[Apone]

I would suggest the honorable thing, almost by definition, is not going to be sucker-punching an unsuspecting person and committing a felonious assault on them. As for the military, I did my bit already. If your idea of honorable is committing felonies, I hope you never join our military.

I've done my stint as well, mister. So much for your hopes. Honor cannot be defined by the legal system of the US or any other country for that matter. I think in some cases the honorable course could be an illegal act. That becomes a pretty broad philosophical debate, which I never wanted to enter, yet here we both are...

If Garry's story is true to the details, then I support and commend his actions and deem the honorable as I see it. I think, however, when you say "sucker-punching an unsuspecting person and committing a felonious assault on them", you confuse the issue by making it sound as if there was a second act committed after the sucker-punch, but in fact the sucker-punch was the felonious act of which you referred and I say was honorable.

I do not believe, encourage, or consider random felonious acts of wanton violence to be honorable, but I believe you knew this, but chose to so phrase your response in an act of debasement both spiteful and without honor. Was that over the top? Yes. The truth is I think we both know what each other meant, but I was merely trying to make a point with my military service reference that an act of violence in, and of itself, is not necessarily without honor.

Lastly, the guy got punched in the face a couple of times for pulling down a girl’s shirt. No reason to be so chary over it.

One alibi: Thank you for your service, David Armstrong.

[garryc]

The funny thing is, Jay (the guy I punched) was part of a little "crew" and they never tried to settle any "score". I think deep down they agreed with what I did. That was 1976 and kids thought different than they do today.

Sherry, the girl, was a little "slow". Not Special Ed slow but almost. I tutored her in Tech Math about a year after that and getting her through with a "D" was a challenge. Yeah, I was a tutor geek, but I was a tutor geek with a 200 pound solid frame that played defensive tackle.

Funny how memories come flowing back after all these years.

[Creature]

It's hard to determine intent when messages are read as opposed to heard, and I still can't determine even with your follow-up post sincerity or debasement.

If you can not decipher a simple sentence, then I wonder how you decipher other people's body language and their intentions on a day to day basis.

As for your "honorable thing" comment, I am active duty military...and I certainly do not condone sucker punching even the worst of bullies.

[David Armstrong]

I've done my stint as well, mister. So much for your hopes.

And for yours. You brought it up, don't get in a snit when you get called on it.

I think in some cases the honorable course could be an illegal act.

I might even agree with that, but I fail to see how sucker punching someone can ever be called honorable.

...but in fact the sucker-punch was the felonious act of which you referred and I say was honorable.

And that is where we disagree. Sucker punching the guy, with or without damage, is not honorable to me. Sucker punching someone, attacking them without warning, assaulting someone who has done nothing to you, particularly with such violence as to do that much damage is not honorable.

I do not believe, encourage, or consider random felonious acts of wanton violence to be honorable, but I believe you knew this,

No I didn't know it, and it seems you are continuing to defend it. Would you also defend a friend of the person who got punched if they now sucker punched the first guy as being honorable?

I was merely trying to make a point with my military service reference that an act of violence in, and of itself, is not necessarily without honor.

Don't believe I ever said otherwise.

No reason to be so chary over it.

I'm not at all chary over the fact the guy got punched. I do not think somebody launching a sneak attack/sucker punch about it is an honorable act.

Thank you for your service,

And you for yours.

[Apone]

David, looking back through the thread, I think I took the first cheap shot at you. My apologies.

[Apone]

If you can not decipher a simple sentence, then I wonder how you decipher other people's body language and their intentions on a day to day basis.

Are you unfamiliar with inflection? I see now you were just being contentious, so to that I say, none of your business on anything I have taught my children, mister. Rhetorical question: Have you tried reading some of your own posts? Try it putting emphasis on different words each time and you can discern a different meaning several times. It's much easier to decipher meaning from a verbal message when coupled with body language, than a vanilla post.

As for your "honorable thing" comment, I am active duty military...and I certainly do not condone sucker punching even the worst of bullies.

Thanks for your service, and this is where we disagree.

[Apone]

I do not believe, encourage, or consider random felonious acts of wanton violence to be honorable, but I believe you knew this,

No I didn't know it, and it seems you are continuing to defend it. Would you also defend a friend of the person who got punched if they now sucker punched the first guy as being honorable?

So, you state that you didn't know that I was opposed to random felonious acts, but I state that I am, then you say I continue to defend it. I'm confused.


Look, I don't consider the act in question a random act of wanton violence as it was directed at a specific individual in retaliation for what could be considered in some states a type of Lewd Assault. Honorable. My opinion. I know you don't agree. That's fine. We can agree to disagree, and if we were sitting on Mr. Garry's jury, we could consider it hung and walk away knowing we did the right thing by our separate, ingrained senses of honor and morality. Fair?

[Brit]

I'm not real sure that breaking someone's nose and orbital for bad manners would qualify as doing the honorable thing.

Bad manners? No, not bad manners, nasty assault on a female who is (according to the OP,) a little slow, that Mr. pull down the shirt would have known.

Me I would not have "Sucker punched" him, if that's what he actually did.

I would have spun him round, called him a name, "You must be a girl" or something of that ilk... Then broke his nose, after I had avoided, if I could, the punch he threw at me! No not "Bad Manners" Did they not teach the difference at home between bad manners, and a sexual assault?

[Brit]

Do not think that video was a fake, picked up the magazine, tried to shoot the pistol, no go, then racked the slide... Bang.

Looked real to me.

[garryc]

Let me clear something up a little. Sherry was a girl from my neighborhood. I guess I knew her for about 8 years before this incident. She would play softball with us in my back yard, and just hang out. She had no brothers and two sisters. I have to admit I was a little protective of her. When she grew up I was in her wedding as an usher.

I'd like to think I'd do the same thing for any other girl, even if she wasn't disadvantaged. I think I would, but maybe without so much gusto. Would I kick the crap out of a guy walking away from a rape? Yes! Would you?

Was this out of line Derek?

My sister got hooked up with a guy that slapped her around once. She was terrified of him. I went to her apartment and waited.
He came over. I stuck a 357 under his chin and told him to leave her alone or I'd kill him. She never had another problem with him. He is very lucky, because had my dad got to him first he likely would be dead today. Sometimes how you extenuate a message makes all the difference.

[pax]

Guys,

We've gotten a long way away from the original topic here, and it doesn't appear there's much to say any more about the video that started this: nobody appears to know if it's real or faked, no additional information has been forthcoming, and nobody's talked about the original topic for quite awhile. So the thread's pretty well done on that score.

On a side note -- thanks to all those who tried for understanding and courtesy even while vigorously disagreeing. A sincere and emphatic "Thank you!" to you.

And shame on those who let their tempers get the better of them. Do better next time, please.

Closed.

pax