Chokes, fixed vs tubes....

Dave McC · June 21, 2001, 09:42 AM

In the last two weeks, I've had several queries about what chokes to use for ______. Tied into this is the convenient and popular option of interchangeable tubes, Most folks like them, but there IS a worm in that apple.So,let's take a little walk through Chokeland and see what upsides and downsides there are....

First, whatever choke denomination you use, the markings thereof are just an educated guess. By changing loads,we can make any choke give patterns at any set range that would have more variance than by switching to the next tighter/looser tube.
IE, a Modified choke can give IC type patterns with small,soft fast shot, or nigh Full choke performance with a buffered load of hard,large shot at a lower velocity.

Having a long forcing cone mimics a tighter choke. By less deformation of the shot, more of those little pellets stay in the pattern, making it not tighter, but denser.

NO choke, fixed or tube(Or the Polychoke style) can be trusted to give the marked pattern with all loads, or even most. Only a session at the Patterning board will tell you just what YOUR load and choke combo will do. A bit of work, but well worth it.And while we keep hearing about patterning at a standard 40 yards, it's better to make the distance what a particular type of shot will be. Quail get shot, and shot at, around 20-30 yards away, so pattern your quailgun/load/choke combo there.

And now Fixed vs Tubes....

No one disputes the versatility of choke tubes. They are nigh universal,add to the value of the gun and oft serve to make one shotgun suitable for clay games,upland hunting and waterfowl. The rifled tubes aid accurate slug work.But...

First, installation sometimes leaves a bit of tube skirt showing. This can deform patterns,bulge the steel and even result in the tube being torn from the bbl. Rare, but a royal pain and expensive to fix.

Also, sometimes either the bbl or tube is not as concentric as we'd like.So, our Loudenboomer Special SP throws a nice pattern with the Skeet II choke, but the Modifed tube,same make, throws a tighter pattern, but centered low and starboard. My guess is, 25% of the tubes out there will vary POI.

And, some tubes manage to loosen as the shotgun's fired. I've seen trapshooters check their tubes every post,and HAVE to tighten one up in the course of a single round.Make is not important, tight tolerances on the choke threads and loose tolerances in the bbl happen. A bit of beeswax on the threads and a little more Oooomph when we tighten helps, tho these should be checked frequently. When a tube loosens enough, that thin steel is exposed to higher pressures. Bulges can/do happen thereby.

OTOH, fixed chokes are less likely to be problems. Some are also non concentric, again patterning is vital. While one loses versatility, a special purpose shotgun may do better with a fixed choke, tailored or just plain suitable for a specific load and job. Instance, a turkey, waterfowl or trap gun. And then, money being no barrier, I'd probably pick a load and ream/polish until I got EXACTLY the results I wanted at a given range.

GP or all around shotguns will probably do better with changeable chokes. Doubles,with their choice of chokes, benefit less from tubes than single bbled guns. I'd get tubes in a pump or auto for upland hunting, but stick to a fixed IC/Mod combo in a double.If I'd be using that double for clay games, I might stay with the fixed chokes and switch loads, soft 9s for skeet, hard 7 1/2s for handicap trap, both for SCs.

NOTE:

For HD, choke is meaningless, 5 yd patterns are the same. I advise that for Serious shotguns, figure out the max distance it will be used at, add one yard for GPs, and pattern with your Serious loads. I see no advantage to anything tighter than Modifed, but your needs may differ.

My HD 870 is chokeless, the Deer 870 that serves as backup out of season has a Skeet tube in it.

Questions,comments?....

Dave R · June 21, 2001, 10:15 AM

Thanks for the balanced discussion. I know a lot of folks who think tubes are the only answer, any more. Thanks for reminding us of the virtues of fixed chokes, and the importance of patterning and load selection.

K80Geoff · June 21, 2001, 01:22 PM

Tubes are the best thing since sliced bread (although why sliced bread is so great I haven't figured out yet?) They can be troublesome however. They must be kept clean and lubed or they tend to rust in the bore. Some shooters like this for some reason, they are always telling other shooters how they left a certain constriction in the barrel and let it rust in?

I have had a tube blow out of the barrel! (Missed the damn bird too!) the manufacturer replace the tube and checked the barrels for problems, had the gun back to me in 8 days too!

Make sure the tubes are tight, use a wrench to snug them but not overtighten, and use a lube on the threads. Clean the threads regularly, on the tube and inside the barrel. Keep the tubes in a case to keep them clean, I use a plastic shotshell box sold by a company called MTM.

Changing tubes regularly during a match can have a psychological effect on your competition, some folks can't stand constant tube changing, gets them all bent out of shape. Of course when they complain I change the tube at every stand, even if I have to take out the regular tube and put it back in, just to jerk their chain

When you have a complete set of constrictions for each barrel of your O/U then you know you have arrived. Briley has 10 different constrictions, from diffuser to extra full

Then of course if you are really demented you can send your barrels to Teague in Great Britain. He makes the tubes specially for each barrel and the ones I have seen make the barrel look like it is fixed choke. The tubes come out with a pop when you change them.

Geoff Ross

Dave McC · June 21, 2001, 02:32 PM

You're welcome, Dave R. Reminders are needed sometimes, and explanations more.

Geoff, thanks for the fillins. I use a little CLP on the threads, and have no idea what people are thinking about when they brag about poor maintenance....

Briley makes theirs in .005" increments. I doubt all are needed, but a handful of tubes like that and an afternoon at the patterning bench/board could be invaluable for getting the right pattern for the job.

Three tubes oughta cover the gamut, Frankenstein has Skeet,Mod and Extra Full Colonial/Hastings tubes. That Skeet tube is deadly on quail and other small bird,small shot up close situations.

Modified good for pass shooting Doves and doubles as my Steel shot waterfowler setup.

Extra Full is for Turkey, tho I do like it sometimes when I use this shotgun for trap.

June 21, 2001, 09:42 AM	#1
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Chokes, fixed vs tubes.... In the last two weeks, I've had several queries about what chokes to use for ______. Tied into this is the convenient and popular option of interchangeable tubes, Most folks like them, but there IS a worm in that apple.So,let's take a little walk through Chokeland and see what upsides and downsides there are.... First, whatever choke denomination you use, the markings thereof are just an educated guess. By changing loads,we can make any choke give patterns at any set range that would have more variance than by switching to the next tighter/looser tube. IE, a Modified choke can give IC type patterns with small,soft fast shot, or nigh Full choke performance with a buffered load of hard,large shot at a lower velocity. Having a long forcing cone mimics a tighter choke. By less deformation of the shot, more of those little pellets stay in the pattern, making it not tighter, but denser. NO choke, fixed or tube(Or the Polychoke style) can be trusted to give the marked pattern with all loads, or even most. Only a session at the Patterning board will tell you just what YOUR load and choke combo will do. A bit of work, but well worth it.And while we keep hearing about patterning at a standard 40 yards, it's better to make the distance what a particular type of shot will be. Quail get shot, and shot at, around 20-30 yards away, so pattern your quailgun/load/choke combo there. And now Fixed vs Tubes.... No one disputes the versatility of choke tubes. They are nigh universal,add to the value of the gun and oft serve to make one shotgun suitable for clay games,upland hunting and waterfowl. The rifled tubes aid accurate slug work.But... First, installation sometimes leaves a bit of tube skirt showing. This can deform patterns,bulge the steel and even result in the tube being torn from the bbl. Rare, but a royal pain and expensive to fix. Also, sometimes either the bbl or tube is not as concentric as we'd like.So, our Loudenboomer Special SP throws a nice pattern with the Skeet II choke, but the Modifed tube,same make, throws a tighter pattern, but centered low and starboard. My guess is, 25% of the tubes out there will vary POI. And, some tubes manage to loosen as the shotgun's fired. I've seen trapshooters check their tubes every post,and HAVE to tighten one up in the course of a single round.Make is not important, tight tolerances on the choke threads and loose tolerances in the bbl happen. A bit of beeswax on the threads and a little more Oooomph when we tighten helps, tho these should be checked frequently. When a tube loosens enough, that thin steel is exposed to higher pressures. Bulges can/do happen thereby. OTOH, fixed chokes are less likely to be problems. Some are also non concentric, again patterning is vital. While one loses versatility, a special purpose shotgun may do better with a fixed choke, tailored or just plain suitable for a specific load and job. Instance, a turkey, waterfowl or trap gun. And then, money being no barrier, I'd probably pick a load and ream/polish until I got EXACTLY the results I wanted at a given range. GP or all around shotguns will probably do better with changeable chokes. Doubles,with their choice of chokes, benefit less from tubes than single bbled guns. I'd get tubes in a pump or auto for upland hunting, but stick to a fixed IC/Mod combo in a double.If I'd be using that double for clay games, I might stay with the fixed chokes and switch loads, soft 9s for skeet, hard 7 1/2s for handicap trap, both for SCs. NOTE: For HD, choke is meaningless, 5 yd patterns are the same. I advise that for Serious shotguns, figure out the max distance it will be used at, add one yard for GPs, and pattern with your Serious loads. I see no advantage to anything tighter than Modifed, but your needs may differ. My HD 870 is chokeless, the Deer 870 that serves as backup out of season has a Skeet tube in it. Questions,comments?....

June 21, 2001, 01:22 PM	#3
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	Tubes are the best thing since sliced bread (although why sliced bread is so great I haven't figured out yet?) They can be troublesome however. They must be kept clean and lubed or they tend to rust in the bore. Some shooters like this for some reason, they are always telling other shooters how they left a certain constriction in the barrel and let it rust in? I have had a tube blow out of the barrel! (Missed the damn bird too!) the manufacturer replace the tube and checked the barrels for problems, had the gun back to me in 8 days too! Make sure the tubes are tight, use a wrench to snug them but not overtighten, and use a lube on the threads. Clean the threads regularly, on the tube and inside the barrel. Keep the tubes in a case to keep them clean, I use a plastic shotshell box sold by a company called MTM. Changing tubes regularly during a match can have a psychological effect on your competition, some folks can't stand constant tube changing, gets them all bent out of shape. Of course when they complain I change the tube at every stand, even if I have to take out the regular tube and put it back in, just to jerk their chain When you have a complete set of constrictions for each barrel of your O/U then you know you have arrived. Briley has 10 different constrictions, from diffuser to extra full Then of course if you are really demented you can send your barrels to Teague in Great Britain. He makes the tubes specially for each barrel and the ones I have seen make the barrel look like it is fixed choke. The tubes come out with a pop when you change them. Geoff Ross __________________ I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!

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June 21, 2001, 10:15 AM	#2
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Thanks for the balanced discussion. I know a lot of folks who think tubes are the only answer, any more. Thanks for reminding us of the virtues of fixed chokes, and the importance of patterning and load selection.

June 21, 2001, 02:32 PM	#4
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	You're welcome, Dave R. Reminders are needed sometimes, and explanations more. Geoff, thanks for the fillins. I use a little CLP on the threads, and have no idea what people are thinking about when they brag about poor maintenance.... Briley makes theirs in .005" increments. I doubt all are needed, but a handful of tubes like that and an afternoon at the patterning bench/board could be invaluable for getting the right pattern for the job. Three tubes oughta cover the gamut, Frankenstein has Skeet,Mod and Extra Full Colonial/Hastings tubes. That Skeet tube is deadly on quail and other small bird,small shot up close situations. Modified good for pass shooting Doves and doubles as my Steel shot waterfowler setup. Extra Full is for Turkey, tho I do like it sometimes when I use this shotgun for trap.