Seating in Public?

[riverrat66]

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? Do you understand what OCD really is:

Try reading this:
"Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, OCD, is an anxiety disorder and is characterized by recurrent, unwanted thoughts (obsessions) and/or repetitive behaviors (compulsions). Repetitive behaviors such as handwashing, counting, checking, or cleaning are often performed with the hope of preventing obsessive thoughts or making them go away. Performing these so-called "rituals," however, provides only temporary relief, and not performing them markedly increases anxiety. Obsessive-compulsive disorder, or OCD, involves anxious thoughts or rituals you feel you can't control. If you have OCD, you may be plagued by persistent, unwelcome thoughts or images, or by the urgent need to engage in certain rituals.

You may be obsessed with germs or dirt, so you wash your hands over and over. You may be filled with doubt and feel the need to check things repeatedly. You may have frequent thoughts of violence, and fear that you will harm people close to you. You may spend long periods touching things or counting; you may be pre-occupied by order or symmetry; you may have persistent thoughts of performing sexual acts that are repugnant to you; or you may be troubled by thoughts that are against your religious beliefs.

The disturbing thoughts or images are called obsessions, and the rituals that are performed to try to prevent or get rid of them are called compulsions. There is no pleasure in carrying out the rituals you are drawn to, only temporary relief from the anxiety that grows when you don't perform them.

A lot of healthy people can identify with some of the symptoms of OCD, such as checking the stove several times before leaving the house. But for people with OCD, such activities consume at least an hour a day, are very distressing, and interfere with daily life.

Most adults with this condition recognize that what they're doing is senseless, but they can't stop it. Some people, though, particularly children with OCD, may not realize that their behavior is out of the ordinary."

So what you're saying is, just because of the way someone chooses their seat in public they have OCD? Now I've heard everything!

You're bashing the wrong Bush.

What difference does it make?

Words to live by:

Originally Posted by Antipitas

those who have to criticize others for the way they conduct themselves when such conduct does not in any way interfere with your own lifestyle, need to look at yourselves and figure out why you have this compulsion to so judge others.

It's time to move on.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

If one suffered from the anxiety symptoms related to OCD when they did not get correct tactical seating - that might be OCD.

I could theorize that someone who was forced to take a tactical seat and had to perform scans of the room in a repetitive manner and if thwarted in that - had the OCD anxiety symptoms could have a problem.

However, I have a friend who is expert on the anxiety disorders and I'm going to ask if they ever saw an OCD manifest in extreme tactical behavior as compared to the usual obsessions and compulsions.

That's an interesting question. I wonder if it would manifest in people with much training under a stress-diathesis model. Could you see in police or military?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

So I investigate the issue with a colleague expert in the anxiety disorders.

We are describing some folks who have a symptom of hypervigilance that is disruptive of their lives. To live in a constant state of scanning and feeling anxiety in public of the threat of constant attack is not healthy.

If one could not be seated in a restaurant or movie theatre because a tactical suitable table or set of seats is not available is disruptive. If one were forced to sit in such and then suffered from heightened anxiety such that your flight or fight mechanisms led to arousal, emotional distress or intrusive cognitive thoughts about threat would be troublesome.

However, such symptomology is not really found under the OCD rubric. It is most common in two disorders:

GAD - general anxiety disorder.
PTSD - post traumatic stress disorder. PTSD has a precipitating incident to lead to the hypervigilance.

That's where you see extreme hypervigilance that describes someone always scanning for exits, extremely careful of seating, evaluating everyone for threats, etc.

Some of this does sound like our normal gun world alertness and awareness. However, for the disorders, you get the extreme anxiety symptoms and disruption of your normal daily business.

If a person's life is disrupted significantly or they suffer severe feelings of distress, then their color codes are a touch out of control, IMHO.

An example:

1. I refused to take my family to an ice cream store at closing time. It was located in a strip mall and sort of isolated. That's a good time for a robbery. I regard that as careful.

2. I go to Olive Garden and it is crowded. The only table isn't tactical. I take it anyway and don't really feel anxious. I don't leave the restaurant. Do I know cognitively that it isn't the best gunworld decision. Probably - do I think that the amount of risk is manageable - yes, I do. Do I have an anxiety event over it - no, I don't.

[Anthony2]

I still smile everytime I watch one of my well intentioned, thought provoking, threads take off running. I'm glad there is such a wide diversity of individuals with which to express and exchange ideas.

"The day you stop thinking and learning is the day you start dying."-Einstein

IMO, the chances of someone with OCD having to worry about "tactical seating" is slim to none. I've known many people with just that condition and t.s. was the last thing on their minds.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Anthony2 - this is an interesting thread. The OCD path was wrong speculation - you do see the tactical seating syndrome in the GAD and PTSD populations. However, they are not necessarily gun folks in orientation, they just worry about threats and exits.

My colleague was running a group for PTSD suffers with this problem and told me that they had to change meeting rooms as the scheduled one didn't have enough exits.

[riverrat66]

Glenn,
Let me ask you a question. Did you ever hear of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder BEFORE the Vietnam War? That's why I said a LOT of Vietnam veterans have this problem about "seating in public". It's a "PTSD" issue whether that person wants to admit it or not!

[Al Norris]

I'm not Glenn, but yes, we've all heard of it. It was called by other names before the clinicians categorized the psychological phenomenon. Shell Shock and Combat Fatigue to name just two.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

PTSD became official in 1980 when added to the DSM. Clearly, it was seen and reported back to the Roman armies and before. The Civil War, WWI and WWII have many cases written up and reported.

To the point in question - the initial post was

I find myself more and more adjusting my seating in public. If I go into a movie theater or restaurant, I HAVE TO have a seat at the rear of the establishment. It has to be as close as possible to the back wall, hopefully with a window facing the parking lot. At the very least it MUST have a clear line of sight to the entrance/exit even if there's more than one.

Is this completely insane or do others follow this same idea?

1. If one had to do this or suffer marked anxiety symptoms - that's a problem and quite different from a cognitive acknowledgement of tactical problems.

2. Insane - that's the wrong term (sigh - don't you hate professors?), Insanity, nowadays, is a legal decision based on culpability in criminal proceedings and not a description of one's behavior in a noncriminal setting.

If not getting tactical seating generates severe anxiety, it is problematic.

[Skyguy]

If not getting tactical seating generates severe anxiety, it is problematic.

VERY problematic!
One should seek professional help.
.

[riverrat66]

Antipitas,

I know it was called Shell Shock and Combat Fatigue before it was officially called PTSD. But the huge number of veterans suffering from it after Vietnam was the reason the clinicians categorized the psychological disorder as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder to begin with.

Nowdays anyone who has witnessed any type of stressful event from a robbery or a car accident or a shooting or a rape victim can suffer from PTSD.

I've talked with many WWII vets at the VAMC who suffer from PTSD (shell shock in WWII terms) and never knew it, well they knew it, they just never admitted it and just never spoke about their experiences until they were in a group together.

They received the same advice upon returning home as I did, "the war is over, put all that stuff behind you and forget about it". As it turns out, not a very healthy thing to do.

So, if I suffer from the dreaded PTSD and prefer to sit in the last row of the theater or need to have a certain seat in a restaurant, does that make me insane as some would suggest? Because if it does, I'm crazier then a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]house rat!

[PythonGuy]

For anyone that's been in combat, how could life ever be the same again? I used to work with a guy who would actually duck or crouch low if there was a loud unexpected backfire; he was in a jeep in Nam that rode over a landmine. That type of stress, if it can be lessened by sitting near a wall or in view of the doors, is totally understandable. A combat vet can never be paid back enough for what they did.........

[Al Norris]

riverrat, I'm not disagreeing with you. Nor am I trying to be contentious. I answered the way I did mostly because a large number of people simply think that PTSD is a strictly Vietnam related issue. They aren't even aware that shell shock, etc. are the same thing.

In fact, if you look at many news stories, you will find that combat vets suffer from PTSD but civilians suffer from a related, but somehow different, Delayed Stress Syndrome, sometimes called PTSS. FAUGH!

PTSD is PTSD regardless of whom it inflicts. I don't care much if the clinicians differentiate between a "disorder" and a "syndrome." Reality check! It is the same.

[Rainbow Six]

I don't like having my back to a crowd. Comes from nearly 13 years of being in LE and watching my six on calls and in tight situations, and living where I work. I like seats near the back of rooms with my back to a wall. However, anxiety never sets in if I can't get such a seat. I simply "prefer" to have such seating.

On the daily carry issue, I avoid being oblivious to my surroundings, but I'm not in what I'd really call a "heightened" sense of awareness (ie; incessant scanning, anxiety setting in...) unless general awareness has brought to light something "out of the ordinary". Same at work. Same riding on my motorcycle. I avoid being oblivious to my surroundings but I'm not tuned up to hypervigilance unless something dictates going into that state.

I'd be worried if I experienced anxiety on a regular basis due to my level of vigilance. That's simply not the case though. It does not hinder me from enjoying life when I can't get "tactical table arrangements", which I find hilarious.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Diagnosis is more than worrying about a table. This is a summary of the current one:

DSM-IV- the core features of PTSD comprise a stressor criterion that defines the etiologic event and a configuration of symptoms, drawn from 3 groups, that define the characteristic PTSD syndrome (3). The 3 symptom groups that constitute the PTSD syndrome are as follows: reexperiencing the trauma in nightmares, intrusive memories, or ?flashbacks? (Criterion B); numbing of affect and avoidance of thoughts, acts, and situations that symbolize the trauma (Criterion C); and symptoms of excessive arousal (Criterion D). The diagnosis requires the persistence of symptoms for at least 1 month (Criterion E) and clinically significant distress or impairment (Criterion F).

[riverrat66]

I'm going out for dinner on Friday nite and I'm gonna enjoy myself regardless of where I sit. I won't be oblivious to my surroundings but I won't be "nervous & jerky" either. It happens to be a upper-class restaurant :barf: in a bit of shady neighborhood and the weather is very hot so my attire may not allow me to carry concealed. (that's another thread)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Is it a nudist restaurant? Otherwise, one could carry a reasonable firearm in one's pocket to avoid the tactical heebie-jeebies?

Even in the nudist restaurant, one could carry a NAA mini in ways that would disrupt one's appetite if drawn. It's been done. Sometimes surgery was necessary.

[dfaugh]

I used to be really careful about where I sat in restaurants and bars---a holdover form my youth when I frequented some "not so nice" establishments. I'm a little less picky now, but still try to sit where I can see the door, and the majority of the people around me. My friends are used to it, when we go out to dinner, and just let me pick my seat first.

Funny story: I met a colleague on a project in a restaurant a few years ago...We were shown to a table, and both of us immediately went for the seat with our backs to the wall. We both laughed about it for a long time after.

P.S. I have been diagnosed w/ PTSD and GAD. I don't like crowds, and won't go places where there's a lot of people packed in a confined space. An unexpected loud noise will send me into overdrive. My kids are afraid to wake me, and if they have to, they'll stand as far away as possible, and touch my hand, then jump back. I have a tendency to come up violently. Sad way to be.

[riverrat66]

Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer

Is it a nudist restaurant?

No it's not and I was going to mention that I have a very nice pocket pistol in that of my Beretta Bobcat but I didn't want to sway off topic again.

Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer

one could carry a NAA mini in ways that would disrupt one's appetite if drawn. It's been done. Sometimes surgery was necessary.

Jeez Glenn, I'm going for dinner not to prison.

[Skyguy]

I have been diagnosed w/ PTSD and GAD. I don't like crowds, and won't go places where there's a lot of people packed in a confined space. An unexpected loud noise will send me into overdrive. My kids are afraid to wake me, and if they have to, they'll stand as far away as possible, and touch my hand, then jump back. I have a tendency to come up violently. Sad way to be.

Sad way to be, indeed.
You're freaked out by the past 'and' the future.

I know that there is no cure for mental illness, but is there any treatment for such a dilemma?
.

[riverrat66]

Originally Posted by Skyguy

I know that there is no cure for mental illness, but is there any treatment for such a dilemma?

Unbelievable! PTSD is NOT a mental illness. That's like calling a child with Downs Syndrome a retard.

[mutlee]

Unbelievable! PTSD is NOT a mental illness.

Sure it is.
PTSD is a psychological-emotional disorder....specifically an anxiety disorder. Thus, it's a mental illness.

The mental illness/anxiety disorder of PTSD originates from conflict or trauma.

Keep in mind that "mental illness" is a broad, encompassing phrase.
.

[Anthony2]

While my viewpoint may seem extreme to some if not all, it is mine and mine alone. I will sum up my outlook on this topic with the following quote from a state police officer:
"Trust family, all others are suspect." This is perhaps the best wording I've heard yet to summarize my point of view.

To each and everyone involved in this thread, I say thank you. While some have viewpoints I don't agree with, I still respect said individuals and viewpoints. After all that's what makes America great! When a guy can take an idle thought and develop it into a purposeful and opinionated discussion it is a good day.

[Rainbow Six]

While my viewpoint may seem extreme to some if not all, it is mine and mine alone. I will sum up my outlook on this topic with the following quote from a state police officer:
"Trust family, all others are suspect."

I thought the LE creed was, "In God we trust... All others get ran through NCIC. "

[Glenn E. Meyer]

PTSD is in the DSM-IV and thus legitimately classified as a disorder.

The anxiety disorders are very treatable with at least two different therapies with Cognitive Behaviorial Therapy being one of the best according to the research.

Someone suffering from such might benefit from a competent CBT therapist.

[Superhornet]

How many States have passed Conceal Carry laws for its citizens ?? Have they done this out of ""paranoia"" or is there an underlying reason and the situation where a weapon is needed to defend ones self has become more prevalent?? I choose to carry. For those of you that don't carry, good for you, for a man must always know his limitations......