reload 45acp

hal1 · January 2, 2011, 10:42 AM

while reloading 45acp,i came across 7 cases for 45acp that would not take a large primer. upon inspection the cases had small primers in them. if i reload these using small primers does it make a difference and or is it dangerous.

Japle · January 2, 2011, 10:56 AM

I've read that .45 cases with the smaller primer pocket come from winchesters win/clean ammo.
You could reload them, but why bother? There are plenty of .45ACP cases around and they're cheap.
Seven cases? Toss 'em!

**Unclenick** · January 2, 2011, 11:04 AM

That is correct. Usually the letters "NT" for "non-toxic" appear. The primer pockets are smaller and the flash holes are bigger. But people who've used small pistol primers in them have reported no problems from that. The biggest problem they represent is for people with progressive loading machines. If they fail to spot one the press tries to jam a large primer into it.

If you are interested in the reasons for the differences, read this article.

Sevens · January 2, 2011, 12:42 PM

We are talking about only one of two different kinds of small primer brass in .45 that's out there. The Win NT (and maybe some other brands "clean" ammo?) may have enlarged flash holes. If/how this alters the internal ballistics, I don't really know.

However, that's the NT stuff. Truth is that there are other makers producing some small primer .45 Auto brass now, and I don't believe it's any NT or "clean" ammo. It's just that these SOB's are mucking up the works for us.

First ones I found were Fiocchi brass and now I'm finding CCI stamped brass in .45 Auto using the small primer.

The mother effer in the middle of all of this is the handloader who happens to miss one at his bench -- when he goes to prime the case with a large primer (and a small pocket), it's obvious what is going to happen if he's not fortunate enough to stop in time. (bang!)

ABSOLUTELY, it's every handloader's job to do case inspection and to be aware at his bench with his tools. But this is a man-made problem, not a random pitfall nor is it wear-induced. This isn't like examining for case stress or mouth cracks. This is a couple companies that are willfully changing a long standing standard and I hope they get warts on their privates because of it.

DiscoRacing · January 2, 2011, 01:45 PM

I have 8 or 10 with small primer pockets everytime I buy 1,000rds.... I just throw em in the scrap brass.

jb683 · January 2, 2011, 01:57 PM

I have heard of small primer pockets in the 45GAP. Would this be the case? I have never seen the GAP round, but remember reading it somewhere.

Adamantium · January 2, 2011, 02:32 PM

The 45 GAP is a different round than a 45acp and uses small primers. The concept is 45 power from a shorter case.

**Unclenick** · January 2, 2011, 03:32 PM

hal1 · January 2, 2011, 04:44 PM

thanks for all the info ya'll...the two brands i've encountered are federal and blazer

Xfire68 · January 2, 2011, 05:52 PM

Since I started selling some range brass I have noticed that there are a few companies that are doing this small primer crud!

I now have Blazer, Federal and WIN Clean I think those are the right head stamps? I will have to double check. It is a pain as it is just another thing I have to sort for! :barf:

From what I have read they reload fine but, I still think it is crazy or I should say irresponsible on the companies part to do it this way!

Adamantium · January 2, 2011, 06:45 PM

I primed a batch of 45acp today and ironically I found about 35 pieces of small primer brass mixed in, all Blazer and Federal. Thankfully I reload 9mm and 38/357 so I just primed them all at the end but the same thing happens to me with 7.62x39mm as well. Remington is the only maker that uses small rifle primers for it and I reload nothing that uses that primer. Sadly those cases go in the trash because I'd have to collect for years to justify buying primers for them.

Sevens · January 2, 2011, 07:17 PM

Hey, small pistol primers in all .45 Auto brass wouldn't bother me one bit -- as long as they could go back and re-write the history of the world and time over the last 100 years that they've been manufacturing .45 Auto brass and change all of that brass over to small primer also.

Otherwise, this is the work of some short sighted idiot that needs to be publicly flogged.

jake556 · January 16, 2011, 10:40 PM

If I had hundreds of small I would use them. But since you only have 7 it can give you a headache if your reloading large primers and come across them. Toss them is my opinion

Clark · January 17, 2011, 03:22 AM

For years I have tried to get my hands on some old win clean 10mm brass with small primer pockets to empirically verify that it should have the same power potential as 40s&w when shot with the same OAL.

Sevens · January 17, 2011, 09:29 AM

I consider myself quite familiar with the array of factory 10mm ammo over the years... but I have never heard of Winclean in 10mm.

Learn something new every day! Have you actually seen this stuff? Brass or nickel plated? What was the bullet?

lashlaroe · January 18, 2011, 12:08 PM

Not too much I can add to this thread, unless you want to go take a look at my thread from last month regarding the two boxes of Federal I bought. One having large primers and one box with small primers. The best conjecture is that manufacturers are experimenting with small primers in an effort to save money.

Here's that thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...+small+primers

January 2, 2011, 10:42 AM	#1
hal1 Junior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Posts: 9	reload 45acp while reloading 45acp,i came across 7 cases for 45acp that would not take a large primer. upon inspection the cases had small primers in them. if i reload these using small primers does it make a difference and or is it dangerous.

January 2, 2011, 11:04 AM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	That is correct. Usually the letters "NT" for "non-toxic" appear. The primer pockets are smaller and the flash holes are bigger. But people who've used small pistol primers in them have reported no problems from that. The biggest problem they represent is for people with progressive loading machines. If they fail to spot one the press tries to jam a large primer into it. If you are interested in the reasons for the differences, read this article. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 2, 2011, 12:42 PM	#4
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	We are talking about only one of two different kinds of small primer brass in .45 that's out there. The Win NT (and maybe some other brands "clean" ammo?) may have enlarged flash holes. If/how this alters the internal ballistics, I don't really know. However, that's the NT stuff. Truth is that there are other makers producing some small primer .45 Auto brass now, and I don't believe it's any NT or "clean" ammo. It's just that these SOB's are mucking up the works for us. First ones I found were Fiocchi brass and now I'm finding CCI stamped brass in .45 Auto using the small primer. The mother effer in the middle of all of this is the handloader who happens to miss one at his bench -- when he goes to prime the case with a large primer (and a small pocket), it's obvious what is going to happen if he's not fortunate enough to stop in time. (bang!) ABSOLUTELY, it's every handloader's job to do case inspection and to be aware at his bench with his tools. But this is a man-made problem, not a random pitfall nor is it wear-induced. This isn't like examining for case stress or mouth cracks. This is a couple companies that are willfully changing a long standing standard and I hope they get warts on their privates because of it. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 2, 2011, 01:45 PM	#5
DiscoRacing Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: milton, wv Posts: 3,640	I have 8 or 10 with small primer pockets everytime I buy 1,000rds.... I just throw em in the scrap brass. __________________ Desert Eagle Alliance Group Launcher Extraordinaire ______ ----Get Busy Live'n.....Or....Get Busy Die'n......Red -------They call me Dr. Bob,,,, I have a PhD in S&W

January 2, 2011, 03:32 PM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	__________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 2, 2011, 10:56 AM	#2
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	I've read that .45 cases with the smaller primer pocket come from winchesters win/clean ammo. You could reload them, but why bother? There are plenty of .45ACP cases around and they're cheap. Seven cases? Toss 'em!

January 2, 2011, 01:57 PM	#6
jb683 Member Join Date: December 18, 2010 Location: Garner NC Posts: 66	I have heard of small primer pockets in the 45GAP. Would this be the case? I have never seen the GAP round, but remember reading it somewhere.

January 2, 2011, 02:32 PM	#7
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	The 45 GAP is a different round than a 45acp and uses small primers. The concept is 45 power from a shorter case.

January 2, 2011, 04:44 PM	#9
hal1 Junior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Posts: 9	re: 45acp reloads thanks for all the info ya'll...the two brands i've encountered are federal and blazer

January 2, 2011, 05:52 PM	#10
Xfire68 Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2010 Location: Communist State of IL. Posts: 1,562	Since I started selling some range brass I have noticed that there are a few companies that are doing this small primer crud! I now have Blazer, Federal and WIN Clean I think those are the right head stamps? I will have to double check. It is a pain as it is just another thing I have to sort for! :barf: From what I have read they reload fine but, I still think it is crazy or I should say irresponsible on the companies part to do it this way! __________________ NRA Life Member, SAF Member

January 2, 2011, 06:45 PM	#11
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	I primed a batch of 45acp today and ironically I found about 35 pieces of small primer brass mixed in, all Blazer and Federal. Thankfully I reload 9mm and 38/357 so I just primed them all at the end but the same thing happens to me with 7.62x39mm as well. Remington is the only maker that uses small rifle primers for it and I reload nothing that uses that primer. Sadly those cases go in the trash because I'd have to collect for years to justify buying primers for them.

January 2, 2011, 07:17 PM	#12
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Hey, small pistol primers in all .45 Auto brass wouldn't bother me one bit -- as long as they could go back and re-write the history of the world and time over the last 100 years that they've been manufacturing .45 Auto brass and change all of that brass over to small primer also. Otherwise, this is the work of some short sighted idiot that needs to be publicly flogged. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 16, 2011, 10:40 PM	#13
jake556 Member Join Date: November 12, 2010 Posts: 25	If I had hundreds of small I would use them. But since you only have 7 it can give you a headache if your reloading large primers and come across them. Toss them is my opinion

January 17, 2011, 03:22 AM	#14
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	For years I have tried to get my hands on some old win clean 10mm brass with small primer pockets to empirically verify that it should have the same power potential as 40s&w when shot with the same OAL.

January 17, 2011, 09:29 AM	#15
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I consider myself quite familiar with the array of factory 10mm ammo over the years... but I have never heard of Winclean in 10mm. Learn something new every day! Have you actually seen this stuff? Brass or nickel plated? What was the bullet? __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 18, 2011, 12:08 PM	#16
lashlaroe Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2010 Location: Central Florida Posts: 180	Not too much I can add to this thread, unless you want to go take a look at my thread from last month regarding the two boxes of Federal I bought. One having large primers and one box with small primers. The best conjecture is that manufacturers are experimenting with small primers in an effort to save money. Here's that thread: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...+small+primers __________________ Mike As much as I believe that there is good in every person, I'm not so naive as to think that all people are essentially good. Evil and evil people exist. Deny that fact at your own risk.