Bullet Penetration & Expansion tests # 4

dodgestdshift · June 23, 2004, 02:52 PM

Concluding my tests in 44 Magnum, by comparing their penetration and expansion in milk jugs, fired from a Ruger Redhawk fired from 50 yds. The terminal velocities are calculated from chronograph readings at 10 feet, and calculated to 50 yds.

The results of the retest of 210 gr. Speer Gold Dot Bullet:

Bullet: Speer 210 gr Gold Dot hollow point Caliber 44 (.429 in)
Range: 50 yds Calculated Terminal Velocity 1361
Rotational Speed 55512 rpm

Shot 1

Remaining Wgt 210 gr. Measured Terminal Diameter .772 in
Penetration Depth 18-24 in
Comments: Penetrated and exited 3 jugs, core found in the 4th jug.

Shot 2

Remain Wgt. 210 gr. Measured Terminal Diameter . 705 in.
Penetration Depth 18-24 in.
Comments: Penetrated and exited 3 jugs, core found in the 4th jug.

The results of this test were much better. I cannot explain why the first bullet in the previous test came apart. Maybe just a bad bullet in the sample. These results show consistancy with other bullets and the expansion mushrooms are picture perfect.

I am now considering what cartridge to test next. Maybe the 45 Auto, 45/70 rifle, or the 357 magnum.

ZWolfgang · October 9, 2004, 10:53 PM

Don... any chance you'd consider the .45 Colt?

Also, would you have the experience to provide some info to my question aout bullet speed and performance in this post?

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=153369

Thanks!

dodgestdshift · October 10, 2004, 08:37 PM

ZWolfgang:

I did this experiment to test the 44 magnum pistol I use for deer hunting. My 45 Colt Ruger Vacaro is used only to put holes in paper. I doubt I will ever test it since I don't use it to hunt.

Why don't you do it and post it for us? If you have any questions on my procedures, I would be glad to answer them.

ZWolfgang · October 10, 2004, 09:25 PM

Hey Don (my name too)... I don't have the ability to test as you have done at present, but I hope to do so someday! I understand your reasoning for not being interested in testing the .45 Colt.

I would imagine that the performance of a 240 gr. Gold Dot .44 mag bullet would probably be roughly comparable to a 250 gr. Gold Dot .45 Colt bullet, given the same velocity... Do you think the performance of one would be moderately close to predicting the performance of the other?

From your experiences, what speeds would you say would be ideal, from a personal defense use, for the bullets I listed?

Don

rwilson452 · October 10, 2004, 10:21 PM

my vote is for the .45ACP test that one puullllleeease.
I would like to see results on the .45GAP but i suspect you don't have the equipment for that.

dodgestdshift · October 11, 2004, 09:17 PM

Zwolfgang:

I would not attempt to evaluate a bullet that I have never shot or tested. Why don't you go to the Speer site:

http://www.speer-bullets.com/

They have answered any questions that I have quickly.

RWilson:

I doubt that I will do any more testing this year. The deer season is comming and then the weather gets too cold for water in a jug. I might consider doing it next year, when the weather warms.

ZWolfgang · October 11, 2004, 09:35 PM

Thanks Don... nothing like hearing it right from the horses mouth! That's a great suggestion. I will contact Speer.

dodgestdshift · October 12, 2004, 01:10 PM

Zwolfgang & RWilson:

You stated that you don't have the ability to test your loads. I am guessing that that means you don't have a chronograph or bullet trajectory software.
I posted the terminal (striking) velocities, so that other people with chronographs and software can see how the bullet reacts at different VELOCITIES and can compare their loads at similar velocities at maybe differing ranges. For example if my data states a bullet striking at 1400 fps at 25 yards they might have a similar velocity at 30 yards depending on gun and load.

You can still compare bullets in your gun without knowing the velocities, since you know the RANGE. You can compare differing bullets/loads in your given gun at differing ranges. This is useful information for you to compare bullet properties. For example, you want to know how a bullet performs at say, 50 yds for hunting applications, you don't care as much about velocity. The same for defense ammo, you might test at 10 - 15 yards several differing bullets/loads. Of course, this assumes the loads have a reasonable velocity for the application, which shouldn't be a problem since you wouldn't be thinking of trying it if it was way out of the velocity range for your application(hunting or defense), given in your reloading manual or the manufacturer's specs(factory ammo).

As far as I can see, you can do this test with:

1) A gun
2) Ammo to test
3) A place to safely shoot
4) Some kind of rest (rolled blankets can work). At close ranges probably you don't need a rest.
5) Something to shoot at.

I shot at water filled milk jugs, because I think they are easiest to handle, cheapest (that is FREE, we drink lots of milk), make least mess, most hunting/defense targets are mostly water, and give repeatable results.

If you decide to do the testing let me know how you do.

June 23, 2004, 02:52 PM	#1
dodgestdshift Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Marilla, N.Y. (outside Buffalo N.Y.) Posts: 113	Bullet Penetration & Expansion tests # 4 Concluding my tests in 44 Magnum, by comparing their penetration and expansion in milk jugs, fired from a Ruger Redhawk fired from 50 yds. The terminal velocities are calculated from chronograph readings at 10 feet, and calculated to 50 yds. The results of the retest of 210 gr. Speer Gold Dot Bullet: Bullet: Speer 210 gr Gold Dot hollow point Caliber 44 (.429 in) Range: 50 yds Calculated Terminal Velocity 1361 Rotational Speed 55512 rpm Shot 1 Remaining Wgt 210 gr. Measured Terminal Diameter .772 in Penetration Depth 18-24 in Comments: Penetrated and exited 3 jugs, core found in the 4th jug. Shot 2 Remain Wgt. 210 gr. Measured Terminal Diameter . 705 in. Penetration Depth 18-24 in. Comments: Penetrated and exited 3 jugs, core found in the 4th jug. The results of this test were much better. I cannot explain why the first bullet in the previous test came apart. Maybe just a bad bullet in the sample. These results show consistancy with other bullets and the expansion mushrooms are picture perfect. I am now considering what cartridge to test next. Maybe the 45 Auto, 45/70 rifle, or the 357 magnum. __________________ The shortest distance between two politicians is through your wallet. Don N.

October 10, 2004, 08:37 PM	#3
dodgestdshift Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Marilla, N.Y. (outside Buffalo N.Y.) Posts: 113	ZWolfgang: I did this experiment to test the 44 magnum pistol I use for deer hunting. My 45 Colt Ruger Vacaro is used only to put holes in paper. I doubt I will ever test it since I don't use it to hunt. Why don't you do it and post it for us? If you have any questions on my procedures, I would be glad to answer them. __________________ The shortest distance between two politicians is through your wallet. Don N.

October 10, 2004, 10:21 PM	#5
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	testing... my vote is for the .45ACP test that one puullllleeease. I would like to see results on the .45GAP but i suspect you don't have the equipment for that.

October 11, 2004, 09:17 PM	#6
dodgestdshift Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Marilla, N.Y. (outside Buffalo N.Y.) Posts: 113	Zwolfgang: I would not attempt to evaluate a bullet that I have never shot or tested. Why don't you go to the Speer site: http://www.speer-bullets.com/ They have answered any questions that I have quickly. RWilson: I doubt that I will do any more testing this year. The deer season is comming and then the weather gets too cold for water in a jug. I might consider doing it next year, when the weather warms. __________________ The shortest distance between two politicians is through your wallet. Don N.

October 12, 2004, 01:10 PM	#8
dodgestdshift Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Marilla, N.Y. (outside Buffalo N.Y.) Posts: 113	Zwolfgang & RWilson: You stated that you don't have the ability to test your loads. I am guessing that that means you don't have a chronograph or bullet trajectory software. I posted the terminal (striking) velocities, so that other people with chronographs and software can see how the bullet reacts at different VELOCITIES and can compare their loads at similar velocities at maybe differing ranges. For example if my data states a bullet striking at 1400 fps at 25 yards they might have a similar velocity at 30 yards depending on gun and load. You can still compare bullets in your gun without knowing the velocities, since you know the RANGE. You can compare differing bullets/loads in your given gun at differing ranges. This is useful information for you to compare bullet properties. For example, you want to know how a bullet performs at say, 50 yds for hunting applications, you don't care as much about velocity. The same for defense ammo, you might test at 10 - 15 yards several differing bullets/loads. Of course, this assumes the loads have a reasonable velocity for the application, which shouldn't be a problem since you wouldn't be thinking of trying it if it was way out of the velocity range for your application(hunting or defense), given in your reloading manual or the manufacturer's specs(factory ammo). As far as I can see, you can do this test with: 1) A gun 2) Ammo to test 3) A place to safely shoot 4) Some kind of rest (rolled blankets can work). At close ranges probably you don't need a rest. 5) Something to shoot at. I shot at water filled milk jugs, because I think they are easiest to handle, cheapest (that is FREE, we drink lots of milk), make least mess, most hunting/defense targets are mostly water, and give repeatable results. If you decide to do the testing let me know how you do. __________________ The shortest distance between two politicians is through your wallet. Don N.

October 9, 2004, 10:53 PM	#2
ZWolfgang Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 254	Don... any chance you'd consider the .45 Colt? Also, would you have the experience to provide some info to my question aout bullet speed and performance in this post? http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=153369 Thanks!

October 10, 2004, 09:25 PM	#4
ZWolfgang Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 254	Hey Don (my name too)... I don't have the ability to test as you have done at present, but I hope to do so someday! I understand your reasoning for not being interested in testing the .45 Colt. I would imagine that the performance of a 240 gr. Gold Dot .44 mag bullet would probably be roughly comparable to a 250 gr. Gold Dot .45 Colt bullet, given the same velocity... Do you think the performance of one would be moderately close to predicting the performance of the other? From your experiences, what speeds would you say would be ideal, from a personal defense use, for the bullets I listed? Don

October 11, 2004, 09:35 PM	#7
ZWolfgang Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 254	Thanks Don... nothing like hearing it right from the horses mouth! That's a great suggestion. I will contact Speer.