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Old October 7, 2015, 02:48 PM   #26
Pahoo
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Observe individual operation !!

Quote:
It also has a set trigger but I don't think it is working right.
No, it doesn't sound right. Now, whenever I run into a Double-Set that doesn't seem to be working right, I separate the set from the lock and observe their individual operation. Like some relationships, there are times when they are not communicating very well. The one adjustment that you are noticing, is the small screw located between both triggers, on the trigger plate. That one adjusts the let off in the set. Pull it and observe it operation. Now, some sets actually have two adjustments and that one is located to the rear of the plate. I have run into these on Investment-Arms [I] M/L's ....

On most M/L's, the rear is the set and the front is the hunter. ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old October 7, 2015, 04:39 PM   #27
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This rifle only has one small screw right between the tiggers. Is there a procedure to adjust it ? This rifle hasn't been fired in probably a year or two, maybe all it needs is some oil ?
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Old October 7, 2015, 06:35 PM   #28
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Okay

rebs
There really isn't a procedure as that screw just sets the lightness of the trigger. "If" you set is working properly and we can only guess that it isn't, the further in you turn it, the lighter the trigger pull, after you set. These sets hardly need much if any lubrication under normal conditions. ....

If and when you get around to pulling the set, see if it looks like link. If it does, there are two adjustments, as previously mentioned. ....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Double-Set-P...3D151840695805

I wish you luck and;
Be Safe !!!
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Old October 7, 2015, 08:54 PM   #29
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Rebs: See if this classic method solves the set trigger problem...

To Set; (Per The Manual)

1. Start by unscrewing the set screw several turns.

2. Place the hammer in the half-cock position.

3. Pull the rear trigger until it "clicks" into place (i.e. "sets")

4. Slowly turn the adjustment screw clockwise (inwards) until the trigger mechanism "snaps". Do not turn the adjustment screw further.

5. Now turn the adjustment screw counter clockwise [back out] one full turn. The set trigger system should now work.

TEST (on half-cock again)
Pull rear trigger until it "sets"
Pull the (now significantly lightened) front trigger until it "snaps"


.

Last edited by mehavey; October 7, 2015 at 09:29 PM.
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Old October 8, 2015, 09:44 AM   #30
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The screw does not want to turn, I believe it may have rust on it. I am going to take it to a gunsmith friend of mine and have him check it out. Also have him take the nipple out and put a new one in.
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Old October 8, 2015, 11:28 AM   #31
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Rebs, I installed a musket cap nipple on my Investarms Hawken so I get more reliable ignition. Musket caps are a little harder to find but they have more umph that a standard cap.
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Old October 8, 2015, 03:19 PM   #32
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I took the rifle over to my friend that is a gunsmith and he checked it all out and fixed the trigger. He adjusted the screw between the triggers and it works fine now, it also has a small screw behind the rear trigger. He said the rifled barrel looks fine.
I went shopping for some 58 cal stuff and boy it is hard to find everything is for 50 cal. I found some balls and cleaning patches, nipple wrench, patch remover on Midway USA
What else can you guys suggest as to what all I need ?
With the scarcity of stuff for 58 cal, maybe I could swap out the barrel for a 50 cal. Is that practical or possible ?
This $50.00 gun is going to cost quite a bit more to be able to shoot it.
Does anyone have a starting grain for powder in my 58 cal carbine ? I also need to know what bullets to buy for it and if I can shoot sabots in it ?

Last edited by rebs; October 8, 2015 at 03:26 PM.
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Old October 8, 2015, 03:52 PM   #33
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The N-SSA has some 3000 member shooting .58 caliber muzzle loaders. I've never found there to be a "shortage" of stuff for it.

Some sources for things:

Dixie Gun Works
S&S Firearms
Midway USA
Cabela's

I shoot minie balls in my .58 guns. I also cast my own bullets. Others here can probably chime in on patched balls.

Steve
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Old October 8, 2015, 05:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
58 cal carbine...
Could you please post a pic of the barrel (and one of the muzzle) w/ the "58 cal" stamp on it?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a 58 with set triggers.
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Old October 8, 2015, 08:33 PM   #35
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mehavey, I emailed you a pic that you can post for me if you will. I do not know how to post a pic on here. It shows the cal and double set trigger in the same pic.
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Old October 8, 2015, 08:42 PM   #36
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My husband had a 58 caliber before all our guns were stolen years ago. It was stamped on the barrel 58 Mississippi. He only shot round balls out of it and 50-75 yards was best it would do in accuracy level. Musket caps. Never tried the mini balls. It's best load was 60 volume grains of elephant blackpowder. He sure does miss that old rifle.
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Old October 8, 2015, 09:43 PM   #37
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Posted from Reb's email to me:



(Also, can your gunsmith get the barrel aligned w/ the breech plug for you?)
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Old October 9, 2015, 05:07 AM   #38
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Thank you for posting the pic for me, I appreciate it
That piece is part of where the nipple goes, it is made that way. I guess to protect the nipple and or cap.
I will see what he can do to align it
The manual says to only use 2fg black powder, does that mean I cannot use Pyrodex ?
Also the measurement across the flats of the barrel is 11/16"

Last edited by rebs; October 9, 2015 at 05:13 AM.
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Old October 9, 2015, 05:22 AM   #39
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Sure you can use Pyrodex but I would use RS(2F) instead of P(3F). The Lyman minie is a good choice but I would prefer a stiffer lube than Crisco. The Crisco will work fine but in summer heat it gets really runny. You can load it up to 70 grains of Pyro RS without blowing the skirt on the Lyman minie. I don't know how much higher you can go tho.
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Old October 9, 2015, 05:54 AM   #40
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Sorry... I didn't recognize the obvious snail when looking at the picture.

Hawg is right about thickening up the Crisco for field carry (I use 2-3 parts
Crisco to 1 part beeswax) , but straight Crisco's fine just to get you started
at the range.

Use either 2 or 3F of either Black or Pyrodex depending on what you can get.
At Minieball loads of 60gr or less it's fine.

(I'd definitely use black if you have access)
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Old October 9, 2015, 07:56 AM   #41
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I think I measured the barrel wrong, I measured 1 flat of the barrel. When I measure across the flats I get 15/16"
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Old October 9, 2015, 10:09 PM   #42
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I took what you said before to be 1 1/16 which isn't odd for an original but is for a modern rifle. 15/16 is a little odd since most .58's are one inch but not unheard of.
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Old October 9, 2015, 10:13 PM   #43
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My Investarms Carbine (since sold) and 28" rifle are 15/16 across the flats. I expected they would be 1" but not.
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Old October 9, 2015, 10:39 PM   #44
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yeah if its an investarms, 15/16 is pretty common.
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Old October 10, 2015, 11:25 AM   #45
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Looks like you got a great deal on a fun to shoot muzzle loader. As far as your question "Is the 58 cal muzzle loader obsolete ?", that is pretty much dependant on your purpose. If you want the most accurate, centerfire like hunting rifle that shoots jacketed bullets atop discs of not so black powder, equipped with modern optics.....Yes, it's obsolete. But the afore mentioned aberations to "muzzle loaders" have also made black powder deer season obsolete it's self in my state. Replaced by an "alternate methods" season that includes not only muzzle loaders, but modern, centerfire handguns as well.
As far as availability of supplies, for around fifty bucks you can get bullet or round ball mold, lead pot, and dipper. With a heat source, and supply of scrap plumbers lead you will have a lifetime of "supplies".
Kinda like they old timers did it!
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Old October 10, 2015, 11:44 AM   #46
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Quote:
But the afore mentioned aberations to "muzzle loaders" have also made black powder deer season obsolete it's self in my state. Replaced by an "alternate methods" season that includes not only muzzle loaders, but modern, centerfire handguns as well.
Ms primitive weapons seasons have become so perverted it's not funny. If you hunt private land and have a sportsmans licence it's rifle of choice and you can now bait deer.
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Old October 10, 2015, 12:16 PM   #47
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Fortunately Oregon got ahead of the innovations of muzzle loaders and has ruled out in-lines unless they have open (exposed to the elements) ignition of flint or percussion cap only, loose powder (no pelleted powder, loose subs OK), no scopes (irons only), and all lead projectiles (no sabots or plastic bullet parts). When I see these hunt shows with some guy with pelleted powder, covered shotgun primed scoped in-lines I feel sad. They might as well just call it a "single shot rifle hunt" and let guys with their Sharps, rolling/falling blocks, & trapdoors have a go at it too. That is not a primitive hunt. Just a single shot hunt. I have all kinds of respect for the rock lock guys. So, the big 58s are only "obsolete" if your state allows modern designed firearms in their "muzzleloader seasons". Here in Orygun it is just perfect. I have 4 different 58s.
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Old October 10, 2015, 02:24 PM   #48
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No black powder to be found in my area so I bought 1 lb of Pyrodex RS which it says is equivlent to FFG black powder. Is this ok to use and would the charge be the same ? I also bought a 6 pack of charde tubes but didn't notice until I got home that is says on the back of the package or Blackhorn 209. Can I use them for the Pyrodex FFG or do I need to take them back and get different ones ?
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Old October 10, 2015, 03:17 PM   #49
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Use the Lyman Minieball/Crisco suggested above,
the powdered Pyrodex, and 55-60gr by blackpowder
volume measure.
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Old October 10, 2015, 08:04 PM   #50
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The only balls I could find were Hornady #6120 58 cal .570 lead round for muzzle loaders. 228 grain.
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