Mechanics are done on my Walker conversion... time to shoot

[Magnum Wheel Man]

... & think about how I want it to look...

I'll post some crabby cell phone pics this afternoon, & take some better ones tonight...

so... thoughts on finishing???

I'm thinking just a satin bluing worried a little about the case hardened frame's ability to take bluing, if it's highly polished, case colors would be nice, but we specifically put about .015" of surface hardness on the frame, & my buddy & I discussed this, we would be afraid we'd lose some of the hardness if it was case colored...

the grips currently have one coat of brownel's finish on them... I'm happy with the grain, & will likely keep them...

the brass needs lots more polishing to get the rough spots out...

1st cell phone pics will be a rough over view, I'll try to take more / better pics with my better camera tonight...

cases are 460 S&W, with the headstamps knurled out... I'll be starting with my current CAS 45 Colt bullet a 250 grainer, & my goal is about 1000 fps out of the now 7" barrel...

pics soon...

[rodwhaincamo]

I'm really drawn to browning.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

cell phone takes pretty crabby pics, but here we go...

[Magnum Wheel Man]

ROD... was discussing browning... anyone have pics of a gun refinished with browning they could post to help sway me ???

BTW... this gun was built around black powder, is still marked "caliber 45 Black powder only"

I'll load some less than black powder level loads of smokeless for when I don't have the proper time to do black powder maintenance, but hope as I get older, to be loading only black powder for this revolver...

still has the black powder only warning

[Magnum Wheel Man]

one thing I'm not sure if I can live with, is the extractor ( we talked about it before he performed the machining ) is not parallel with the bore... it's slightly angled... there is a slight radius under the extractor housing, that properly indexes the extractor tube, & the old load ram pivot point has a screw going through to a plug that is silver soldered to the tube, this also strengthens the arbor connection... this holds the extractor assembly in place...

if I decide I can't live with the extractor angled, we can cut thumb nail slot radius's in the back of the cylinder, which would clean up the looks quite a bit... you should be able to see a lot of this better, after I take better pictures tonight

[bedbugbilly]

Very nice! I'd vote for "browning' as well. I don't have any photos but I used "Plum Brown" on a Navy last year that I stripped down and antiqued. (I've used Plumb Brown on ML rifles I've built and always get good results with it). I think browned with a few "holster wear spots" and a good patina on the brass would give that sweetheart a lot of "character".

That is going to be a nice shooter and I'm sure you'll really enjoy it! Have fun!

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Thanks... I hope so... I'm having trouble finding many pictures of brown finished guns... I always end up with pictures of Brownings

still trying to decide on a finish... I'm not sure I want it to look "saddle worn", but also not sure I want it looking brand spanking new & shiny... browning the finish may be what I'm looking for, but will need to see a couple pictures of nicely done guns...

got 50 cases with the 460 head stamps obliterated ( knurled & smoothed out ) the rest are being done today...

BTW... got busy last night, & didn't get the chance to get some better pictures... will try again tonight...

BTW #2... any help with how to load some black powder cartridges for this gun... I do have a custom die for my 444 Marlin shot & ball loads that is used to compress the shot charges down, so that a card can be glued on top... if the 460 case will go into the die body, perhaps I could use that to compress the black powder... suggestions on primers ??? for light smokeless loads, I plan on using large pistol primers ( pressure is pretty low ) but the 460 case I think is set to hold large rifle primers... for black powder cartridges, is a hotter primer ( like rifle, or pistol magnum ) needed... I'm currently using these bullets for my CAS 45 Colt...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/204...ProductFinding

I see they say they are OK for black powder use in shorter barrels... I assume I don't have anything to worry about there, but does the extra case capacity create any issues with the bullet lube???

I'm thinking daily I'll be using that 250 grain bullet, or one in the 255 grain or so range ( the cylinder, by design, won't hold the longer bullets normally loaded in the 460 cartridge, to prevent them from being accidentally fired in the gun ), with one of four smokeless powders...

Unique... 10 grains to start
4198... 20 grains to start
Trailboss... 13 grains to start
PB... 10 grains to start

& work up from there... I'll need to be careful, as I'm sure the normal pressure signs on the case will not be there using 460 cases... I'll be chronoing & looking for best groups on the lower end of the load scales... smokey loads would be a plus ( like Unique often produces ) as they'll look more "black powdery" but not be corrosive

black powder loads would ( at least for right now ) only be used for dusk shooting... at the local CAS regionals, they have a night black powder shoot ( side match ) where it's all about "the flash & bang" if I decided to do that, I'm sure this gun would be a big hit...

[rodwhaincamo]

I really like that! Is it about 7" of barrel?

This is the best I could find:

http://www.milesfortis.com/mcump/mc18.htm

[Magnum Wheel Man]

buddy hates to cut barrels... my goal for symmetry was to have the round portion the same length as the barrel block... it's slightly longer... but puts the barrel right at 7" ( was 9" originally )

thanks for the link... I'm swaying in that direction myself right now...

BTW... the more I look at the frame, with it's subtle pattern & color, ( it was case hardened for hardness depth, not bright color ), I may just polish that down some, & brown the bright metal

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Like Christmas... I was digging in my powder stash for some 4198 last night, that I was pretty sure I had...I found it... plus...

WHOOO HOOO... found another bottle of Trailboss, & an old can of PB pushed back in the corner... so I loaded 3 rounds of each of the starting loads listed above... sorry, still didn't get any better pics...

but hope to test fire my 12 cartridges tomorrow

[4V50 Gary]

Browning it is just wrong.

Express blue it. It's easy and durable.

Degrease it with acetone and then heat the metal with a propane torch. Using a fresh cotton applicator, apply the express blue. Immerse it in boiling water and cook for ten minutes. Then carding to remove scaling.

Repeat as necessary. When the desired blue is reached, oil and let it sit overnight.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

GARY... do you have a pic of a gun with the process you are describing ???

also anyone with pictures browned or otherwise that could help me decide on the finish I want to put on this gun...

I even toyed with the idea of chroming / nickeling the brass frame, though I'd likely only do that with a high polish blue, & I am partial to the brass grip frames, so satin blue, or brown, with brass grip frame is where I'm at right now...

but I'll likely shoot it over the summer, & do the cosmetics next fall / winter, so I have a while to figure out what I'd want ???

[4V50 Gary]

Mike, a link to an image was sent to your email.

ETA: OK, let's see if this works. I downloaded from Dropbox onto my computer and am using the paperclip to attach the image. Here's the Trapper I built in the first semester. Besides draw filing, soldering, inletting, color case hardening, spring making and a lot of frustration we each built a Trapper (which we referred to in less flattering tones).

[Magnum Wheel Man]

GARY... thanks for the picture...

seems like it rained most of the weekend, but I did get the chance to shoot a little, & the gun functioned perfectly... all the ammo seemed to be in the range I was looking for, with most being a bit light, & sooting the case body, with little to no swelling at the case web so a couple of them, I'll be working the charge up... the 13 Grains of Trailboss, shot clean, & were just beginning to swell the web, I won't go more than that

1st issue, & resolution... the brass... I bought 200 Hornady 460 S&W cases... none appeared to have been annealed, & while belling the 1st 12 rounds to test powders, a couple case mouths cracked... so on Sunday I took a cake pan, filled it half full of water, lined the cases up, & heated the mouths with my propane torch for 15 seconds each, then tipped them over in the water bath... got the familiar discoloration around the mouth...

2nd issue, & resolution... my Lee 460 S&W dies were purchased recently, & I'm not a huge fan of their o-ring locking nuts... well, I suspect the dies were made during the last big buying rush, as there are burrs on the threads... these will work themselves out, but the burrs make screwing the dies in to the press the same place difficult, as the locking nuts turn easier than the dies screw into my press, this was compounded by loading only 3 cartridges at a time, with 4 different powders... so, I ordered extra Redding locking rings to put on these dies... & as it is, after screwing in the dies 3-4 times, most of the burrs were off the threads by the end of my 1st loading session...

3rd issue & resolution... after about 10 rounds fired, the end of extractor tube cracked off, where the dog leg in the slot, that keeps the thumb tab tight against the barrel, & the screw at the end are closest... my buddy felt bad, he thought he probably shouldn't have used stress proof steel... since he had to drill the inside bigger to fit the 22 Magazine spring that he used in the extractor, & the thumb tab was bigger & heavier than other conversions he's done... so, he took the gun back home with him that day, & was going to order a tougher alloy for the tube, slightly larger diameter, so it wouldn't be so thin, & extend the tube another 1/8 - 3/16's inch, so the thinnest part would be thicker, & then skeletonize the thumb tab, to take some of the weight off it, so there would be less momentum under recoil... I should have it back by this week's end

over all, the gun shot well, & since it was pouring outside, target shooting wasn't the goal, but I did shoot at the top of a cement bag, that was plastered to a small hill in the yard, that had blown there over the winter, about 50 ft from my patio roof, & was able to hit it several times... it was expected, that I would need to file the front sight down ( front sight is a dovetailed Remington revolver sight ) but it looks to be pretty close now, probably won't need much filing... we discussed black powder loads, & I think I'm confident devoting 50 of my cases to black powder use... otherwise, I'm going to bump the Unique load up a grain or two yet, & probably pull the Trailboss back to 12.5 grains & see how accuracy looks, the 4198 loads looked pretty good, & I will go up one more grain, & see where we are at for accuracy there & adjust... I've decided not to include PB, even though it shot well, only because I've heard they are discontinuing that powder, & no sense developing a load for a new gun, that the powder is going away... I'm not a huge fan of loads that could be double or triple charged, like the Unique load could in that case, & even though it functioned fine, with the powder shaken up to the bullet, or spread level, or knocked into the base, it would have to be much more accurate than the Trailboss or 4198 for me to justify using it, because of it's low load density...

BTW... as far as finish on the metal... right now I'm leaning towards a low gloss blue, with nickel grip frame & cylinder... but again, I'll have all summer to decide...

[45 Dragoon]

What is the barrel/cyl. gap you are running?

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I haven't measured it, but it's pretty tight ( maybe .004 - .005"... tighter than normal for black powder ) edges are left straight, & sharp for cutting black powder fouling, except for the top edge which is beveled away from the shooter... everything is true, so there is no scrubbing

[45 Dragoon]

Hmmmm, for a custom gun that would be an important measurment to know.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

would you like me to measure it for you ???

[45 Dragoon]

I was just curious.
Desiging a gun is a serious matter but . . .
Things cracking and unknown measurments . . .

Just curious.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

you can relax dude... my buddy has been building guns recreationally for over 50 years... he's 76 right now... He's not famous nationally, but is a local legend of sorts... I'm honored he'll still work on stuff for me... he's a retired tool & die guy, & has forgotten more about metal alloys, & machining than most ever knew...

yup... the little end of the extractor tube broke off on initial firing trials,not really a big deal... I can assure you he knows exactly what the barrel cylinder gap was set to, as the taper pin was used to regulate just that... it just was not an important detail to me, since I wasn't doing anything that would effect that...

[mannyCA]

Great project, you should document the next build for those of us who are "technically challenged"

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I've actually already gotten the itch...

I've been curious for a long time... I guess enough so, that I'm finally going to scratch that itch...

my next project... a single action 25 ACP revolver... anyone ever gone down this road??? I've thought about it many times over the years, & always the .251" barrel diameter was the tough thing to come up with... however, when when I ordered the new barrel liner for the Walker, from TJ's, I noticed they had .251" liners, that I could buy by the inch, so I had them throw 8" of .251" on my order... the current 22 LR shortage might have something to do with it, but I've wanted a small reloadable cartridge, long before the current 22 LR shortage, bad enough, that I've already done a lathed turned cased 22 center fire magnum ( loosely based between 22 CCM & the 22 Velo-dog )... the ready formed case, & available factory ammo of the 25 ACP is much more appealing than lathe turned cases ( besides 200 lathe turned cases were very expensive )... lower cost & target sights will be a priority, so I'm thinking about the target 38 special version of the Uberti Stallion as the base gun for the build...

http://www.uberti.com/stallion-revolver

[Magnum Wheel Man]

The new extractor has been machined, & should be ready to try again, this weekend... BTW, I stopped at the local gunsmith "refinish" shop that has my lil S&W spur trigger getting a master blue, & discussed bluing the frame of "big Walker"... they think if it's highly polished, it won't take a finish, but if bead blasted, I can get a satin finish blue that will hold on the hard finish of the frame... so, after I get the bugs worked out, sights regulated, etc. I'm thinking satin blue, with nickel grip frame & cylinder, but I likely won't want to give it up, until fall, for metal finish... actually, I think not being able to do a high polish blue on the case hardened frame has to do with the high carbon content at the surface, because of how this was hardened... they'll still be able to polish out any major tool marks,( which there really aren't any on the frame portion, as my buddy polished that, before case hardening it ) then bead blast everything to an even satin finish, then blue, & all the components should end up the same "color" of blue throughout the various parts

... picked up the revolver again this morning, looks just about the same, only instead of skelletonizing the the extractor thumb tab, he just thinned the tab, leaving the thinnest portion that goes though the tube slot as original thickness for strength, the tube is now a high strength alloy, instead of stress proof, & the end that cracked off before was left about twice as thick, at the end of the slot, to where the set screw goes into the barrel... should be good to go for a life time or two now...

loaded up 100 rounds last night, 50 of the Unique loads, 50 of the IMR 4198, have yet to load the Trailboss or the black powder loads

looking to see if I can get to one powder I like best, & get a basic sight in, with 50 rounds of each... BTW... still hating those Hornady 460 cases... I'd think you'd want a firm crimp on a 460, & even with a much lighter crimp with the 45 BPM, than I'd want if I were shooting 460, I've gotten a couple wrinkled case bodies... of course throwing out those nasty Lee lock rings, & installing some new Redding rings helps alot with keeping the dies screwing in to the proper depth, also really happy with how soft my case mouths are after annealing them... but again, if I were loading 460, I think they may be too soft, to retain the bullets under heavier recoil... they will be fine however, for the 45 BPM

[Magnum Wheel Man]

got the chance to do some more shooting over this last weekend...

10 paces at a target, I shot all 3 loads & see I do need to take some off the front sight, in varying amounts, depending on what I choose for a load... Trailboss was 6-7" low at 10 paces, 4198 was 4-5" low, & 2-3" to the right, & Unique was 3-4" low... there was a very strong cross wind from the south, & I found holding the big gun in the wind, may have opened my groups some... as most groups were strung out horiziontally

so I went back to 60 ft, & shot with my hands rested on sandbags off my bench... groups actually opened up disproportionately to the distance

anyone shoot open top revolver at slightly longer distances, find the hammer "V" rear sight to be the problem??? it seems to work great at cowboy distances, but at 60 ft... something is going on ???

anyway Unique had the best group at 10 paces, & 2nd worst at 60 ft...

will have to file my front sight down, & get groups closer, so when get my chrony out soon, I don't shoot it, ( again ) but all the groups at 10 paces I thought were acceptable at 2-4" without a rest, all had enough pressure to keep the cases clean ( no sooting ) & also low enough pressures that nothing needs sizing yet ( no swelling at the web )... so I could go up a little when trying to dial in the best group sizes later...

so next goal is get it shooting closer to point of aim, & get some speeds on the bullets through the chrony...

BTW... gun functioned perfectly this time, with no hick ups

[alienbogey]

More & better pics, please.