New study by the Cato Institute on DGU - Page 2

C0untZer0 · February 11, 2012, 01:21 AM

No, I really don't know if the general perception now (outside of the shooting community), is that the Brady Campaign cooks the statistics.

I'm not sure how to even get at something like that, niether side of the gun debate would be objective. I guess what is the general perception among moderates on the issue, have they come to believe that the Brady Campaign information is not credible?

Glenn E. Meyer · February 11, 2012, 08:31 PM

Most folk don't follow these details. They would be hard pressed to know what the Brady Campaign is .

danez71 · February 12, 2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

I found NO correlation between how strict a state controls guns and either it's total violent crime rate or it's change over the last 2 decades. States with favorable gun laws are not safer and those with strict controls are more dangerous, as I had hopped to discover. But the reverse is also true.

That doesn't mean gun laws have no affect - logic dictates that they must, one way or the other - but it seems to mean that the other factors are far more important.

You know.. logic does dictate that BUT...I'm not so sure.

I think that the people that make the decision to use a gun (or ANY weapon) in a violent crime has no civility and therefore the laws of our civilization are of NO value to those violent criminals.

If the laws have little value to violent criminals, then the laws have little effect on violent crime rates.

USAFNoDak · February 12, 2012, 11:49 AM

I think falling violent crime rates is the most important issue to bring up to anyone you happen upon who tends to sit on the fence, and might have a belief that more guns would logically seem to be related to more violent crime. We can use some very simple stats which are not political in nature.

1. violent crime rates in the US have been declining since the very early 90's. This includes crimes where guns are used during the commission of the crime.

2. Gun sales have been steadily increasing, and spiked after 2008. Still, violent crime rates have steadily decreased.

3. The assault weapons ban was allowed to sunset in 2004 and violent crime rates continued to decrease.

4. Almost all states now have some sort of permit laws in place to allow citizens to carry handguns in public, whether concealed or openly carried. Violent crime rates have continued to decline.

This doesn't get into the complex issues of causation versus correlation. It doesn't get into arguing as to what is causing the decrease in violent crimes. What it does do, is pointedly show how the people who constantly claim that more guns in society WILL result in more violent crime, are not correct. Otherwise the violent crime rates would be increasing in the United States.

C0untZer0 · February 26, 2012, 10:19 PM

Article in Forbes by author Larry Bell references some of the findings in the Cato study:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...control-lobby/

I know it's important for us in Illinois because we have 2 fights on our hands:

1) Quashing the spate of anti-gun bills recently introduced in Illinois

2) Attempting again to get HB148 - the Family Protection Act ( carry legislation) passed in Illinois.

I was surprised by the information that stated that citizens mistakenly identified criminals and mistakenly shot them less than police:

Quote:

... American citizens using guns in self-defense during 2003 shot and killed two and one-half times as many criminals as police did, and with fewer than one-fifth as many incidents as police where an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%).

But rightly shot more than 2.5 times more criminals.

Now that I think of it though - average citizens aren't going into those domestic disturbance situations or breaking up rowdy parties - like police are, I'm guessing that some of those shootings arise from situations like that.

Or maybe it's a function of being a third party to everything that's going on. If someone is breaking into my house, there's no confusion on my part about who's who.

Also, it's nice that they didn't use a Glock for their gun picture.

Who do I talk to to get them to use something cool like an HK P7M8 or P9 ???

.

Old Smoker · February 27, 2012, 07:41 PM

Here's my idea of gun control. If you commit a crime with a gun, its an automatic 10 year sentence...no judicial up or down...ten years added to the original offense. If you have no record and get probation for robbery, commit it with a gun and get ten years in prison for using a gun and probation for the robbery. Why punish gun owners for criminal acts, punish the perps.

jimpeel · March 27, 2012, 01:33 PM

NRA's Ginny Simone interviewed Clayton Cramer.

Link is HERE.

February 11, 2012, 08:31 PM	#27
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Most folk don't follow these details. They would be hard pressed to know what the Brady Campaign is . __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

February 12, 2012, 11:49 AM	#29
USAFNoDak Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2000 Location: Minnesota, Twin Cities Posts: 1,076	I think falling violent crime rates is the most important issue to bring up to anyone you happen upon who tends to sit on the fence, and might have a belief that more guns would logically seem to be related to more violent crime. We can use some very simple stats which are not political in nature. 1. violent crime rates in the US have been declining since the very early 90's. This includes crimes where guns are used during the commission of the crime. 2. Gun sales have been steadily increasing, and spiked after 2008. Still, violent crime rates have steadily decreased. 3. The assault weapons ban was allowed to sunset in 2004 and violent crime rates continued to decrease. 4. Almost all states now have some sort of permit laws in place to allow citizens to carry handguns in public, whether concealed or openly carried. Violent crime rates have continued to decline. This doesn't get into the complex issues of causation versus correlation. It doesn't get into arguing as to what is causing the decrease in violent crimes. What it does do, is pointedly show how the people who constantly claim that more guns in society WILL result in more violent crime, are not correct. Otherwise the violent crime rates would be increasing in the United States. __________________ "If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams.

March 27, 2012, 01:33 PM	#32
jimpeel Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: Longmont, CO, USA Posts: 4,530	NRA's Ginny Simone interviewed Clayton Cramer. Link is HERE. __________________ Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey

February 11, 2012, 01:21 AM	#26
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	No, I really don't know if the general perception now (outside of the shooting community), is that the Brady Campaign cooks the statistics. I'm not sure how to even get at something like that, niether side of the gun debate would be objective. I guess what is the general perception among moderates on the issue, have they come to believe that the Brady Campaign information is not credible?

February 27, 2012, 07:41 PM	#31
Old Smoker Member Join Date: June 11, 2009 Location: Northren Wisconsin Posts: 63	Here's my idea of gun control. If you commit a crime with a gun, its an automatic 10 year sentence...no judicial up or down...ten years added to the original offense. If you have no record and get probation for robbery, commit it with a gun and get ten years in prison for using a gun and probation for the robbery. Why punish gun owners for criminal acts, punish the perps.