Has anyone killed a bear with a .223? - Page 2

moosemike · May 16, 2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

He replied "box and a half of 458, two and a half boxes of 222",

That's great.

Bigjfb · May 16, 2010, 09:29 PM

OP, more likely to die in car accident or struck by lightning than that bear harming you or yours.

That being said, if the bear ever is an actual threat to you, than he is already close enough where a 300 win mag is justified regardless of how many houses are in your area.

A stray .223 aint going to tickle if it hits somebody.

In what scenario do you see yourself firing on this bear anyway? If he's on your porch? In your house? What?

2500ak · May 16, 2010, 11:04 PM

I'm going to disagree with Bigjfb, I don't doubt the validity of his made up statistic, just the applicability. On average yes its more likely the average person will be in a car accident or stuck my lightening, that is because most people do not live in proximity to such bears.

Within the Anchorage city limits not so much, we've had a number of bears passing though our neighborhood. A few sighted per year. Enough that we can't put our garbage cans out until the morning of garbage day. I can't think of one place that I would go hiking and not be concerned about of bear encounter. Alaska has a lot of bears, I've known people who hunt bears off the river that runs through Fairbanks just a little ways out of town. I'm not saying its likely but, I am saying don't take a .223 into the woods for bear protection.

Grizzlies are quite aggressive and often attack, he has good reason to be worried. Statically though, the moose are more dangerous. They're not skiddish like deer and they're very territorial. A lot more people get stomped each year by moose than attacked by bears.

Wildalaska · May 16, 2010, 11:16 PM

I know at least 20 folks who have killed polar bears and the like with .223 or less

One of the best hunters I know carries a .223 pistol for bear protection

Wildbeatsa44magnumAlaska TM

Bigjfb · May 16, 2010, 11:19 PM

Lightning kills about 100 people per year in the US, bears less than one per year.

Yet "what gun for bear defense?" threads are far more popular than "WHo makes the best lightning rod?" threads.

Maybe because most would rather die from a lightning strike vs a bear strike?

Cars kill many people a day, when was the last time someone asked "Who makes the safest pick-up truck/hunting rig?"

All I am saying is, if it comes down to a situation where you have to shoot a grizz to save your life or the life of a loved one, you dang well better use the biggest gun you got. In the meantime, buckle-up.

2500ak · May 17, 2010, 01:25 AM

Not a lot of people get killed by bears, but a lot of people encounter bears. Even from a distance that's a nervewracking situation. I agree that I'd rather be prepared with a large rifle.

I'm sure you can kill a bear with .223, but I'd have to be both a braver man and a better marksman to try it myself.

.300 Weatherby Mag · May 17, 2010, 02:45 AM

I don't care how well anyone does on bears with .223.. I'm still going to carry a .375....

Nnobby45 · May 17, 2010, 03:09 AM

Saw a documentary decades ago about Alaska natives hunting Grizzlies with .22 LR. Worked fine.

Their tactics were to catch them swimming and come up behind them in a boat, and kill them with one well placed shot.

roklok · May 17, 2010, 03:55 AM

Here is a polar bear that was killed with a .223 :

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=45973

It was shot by a friend of mine here in Fort Yukon, and I believe is the one that someone mentioned earlier in the thread. I have personal knowledge of a number of bears, caribou and moose killed with .223, it is a popular cartridge in bush Alaska. Usually in a Mini-14 or AR-15. I have not killed any bears with .223, but have killed a couple caribou with .223, it is effective if bullet is placed right.

crghss · May 17, 2010, 08:06 AM

....avoid it in the first place.

You need to alert the Authorities. If you shot a bear on U.S. Gov't property no telling the amount of people you'll upset, unless you're in immediate danger of course.

Worse then having a bear running around base housing is having a wounded bear running around base housing. You don't want that on your hands.

No need to insult you friend. Weather he killed a bear with a .223 is immaterial. His experience/story doesn't have any bearing on what you decide to do. You see all the postings of .223's and smaller being used for bear. If I decide to go bear hunting you know what amount influence they'd have on my decision to pick a rifle? None.

2500ak · May 17, 2010, 04:11 PM

My understanding is that Alaskan law dictates that if a large animal, whether it be moose or bear or whathaveyou, is a threat to your person you are well within your rights to shoot it. You aren't however allowed to keep the meat if its out of season, by law you have to turn it over to fish and game who then donate it to the soup kitchens where its used to feed the poor people.

That's what I've always heard at least, I've never had to use that provision.

kodiakbeer · May 17, 2010, 04:52 PM

Alaska natives use the .223 a lot, for all kinds of big game, and they're generally using the cheapest fmj they can find. That doesn't mean it's a good choice for hunting because the part you don't hear about is that they're usually shooting from a snowmobile or ATV and they just keep chasing and shooting until the animal falls down.

That may sound unsporting, but it isn't sport hunting. It's subsistence hunting, no different than using a net instead of a fly rod to catch fish, from their point of view.

Old Grump · May 18, 2010, 06:49 PM

Quote:

P.S. i'm asking because there is a grizzly bear running around base housing and i don't want to use my 300 win mag because of the other houses.all i have left is my .357 mag and my .223

Call the cops first, if that fails the .300 Win Mag and don't miss. You do know even with a good shot, unless that bear was chewing on somebody they will run your Gluteus Maximus up the flag pole.

sc928porsche · May 18, 2010, 09:05 PM

No, I do not use anything 22 caliber for hunting deer.

daniel paydar · June 10, 2010, 03:54 PM

head shot with the fmj bullet in 223 will kill any animal maybe with exception of elephant.
using average soft point varmint bullet is a mad thing to do because there is always chance of lack of penetration.
a hit in CNS with good bullet can stop or kill any animal, but missing that target with a 223 in hand and your chance of geting killed is great too.

jgcoastie · June 10, 2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herroprease

P.S. i'm asking because there is a grizzly bear running around base housing and i don't want to use my 300 win mag because of the other houses.all i have left is my .357 mag and my .223

By this statement, I assume you are living on a military installation. If so, you shouldn't be contemplating shooting anything as you'll face NJP at a minimum for firing a weapon in housing.

If you see a bear around base housing:
- Get everyone inside immediately
- Call Military Police and let them handle it
- Period.

Do not attempt to shoot a bear in military housing unless it breaks down your door. If it does break down your door, I promise you'll want something bigger than a .223 Rem...

kodiakbeer · June 10, 2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

By this statement, I assume you are living on a military installation. If so, you shouldn't be contemplating shooting anything as you'll face NJP at a minimum for firing a weapon in housing.

It wouldn't even occur to me to shoot a bear just for being near my house, and I regularly have bears near my house, in my yard, etc. On a military base, he'll probably face a state poaching charge after the military is done with him.

Microgunner · June 10, 2010, 06:26 PM

When I lived in Chistochina Ak my neighbor, Bill Barnhart, killed a very impressive brown bear with a .222. It was actually a grizzly and would have been a record holder but the Boone & Crockett people said it was too close to the coast and therefore a brownie. The rug mount was on his wall and it was HUGE. He heard it coming down his driveway and grabbed the only loaded rifle in the house, his .222 he kept by the back door for varmints. (2) shots. First one broke the bears shoulder, the second in the bears ear after he calmed down. Bill was an expert hunter and trapper and knew he could harvest the monster with the little .222 and he was right.

natman · June 11, 2010, 02:11 AM

Is it possible to kill a bear with a 223?

Yes.

Is it a good idea to hunt one on purpose with a 223?

No.

stevelyn · June 11, 2010, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Apparently native Alaskans are very happy to use the 223 on everything. The Mini-14 and AR-15 are popular for caribou hunting among the natives.

I've lived here for 23 years with the majority of it in the bush. You'd be hard pressed to find anything over .30-06 out here. When I lived along the Yukon River (a couple of different communities) most of the folks I knew carried Mini-14s as their boat/snomachine gun. When a good friend of mine took me down to his fish camp one time I had brought a Benelli M-1 Super 90 along loaded with Brenneke slugs. When we beached the boat at the camp he told me and one of his boys to take the guns along and sweep the camp before unloading. I grabbed the Benelli he got my attention and tossed a Mini-14 with a 40 round magazine to me instead. We went ashore and swept the camp. Finding no furry occupants we went back down to the bank. I asked him why the Mini rather than the Benelli and his reply to the effect was that it might be small, but there's a lot of them.

Down this way, on the AKPEN it's mostly .270s with .243s as general working guns.

The younger folks these days are getting into larger rifles, but the elders still think largers holes in animals wastes meat.

ZeroJunk · June 11, 2010, 06:20 AM

There is nothing on land that can't be killed with a good shot to the head with a 223.

Don't overestimate your shooting skill in a possibly frantic situation on something that will kill you.

Rifleman1776 · June 11, 2010, 08:01 AM

In Arkansas, sadly, we have some people who poach bears while they are denned up in the winter. One sorry sort I met uses a .223. He crawls into the cave and pumps about a half dozen into their head then drags out the body. And, he leaves any cubs behind to starve and die.
Yes, you can kill bears with a .223. You can also invade Iran with a fly swatter. But, I wouldn't reccomend it.

Grady · June 11, 2010, 08:38 AM

In my early experiences in Alaska and Canada, the natives universally had the venerable 30.30, with a scattering of .22's. I saw lots of big game taken with both, but, also saw a lot of cripples get away to die lingering deaths. The natives, being native, were not chastised by anyone for the crippling and waste of game, sad. Point of the story is, yes, one can kill a bear with almost anything, but can also cripple a lot. A good friend, who was also a guide, had as his weapon of choice when going into the alders after a cripple, an 18" barreled Winchester Model 97 12 gauge loaded with 3" slugs. Hunting with a Remington .338 and a guide once upon a time, I asked him where to shoot a Grizzly who obviously wanted a piece of us, he said "in the shoulders and often", wanted to break it down to keep it off us. Good advice.

Art Eatman · June 11, 2010, 08:59 AM

Just opinion, but there is a lot of difference between the occasional hunter and the hunter who goes out regularly--particularly subsistence hunters. Things like familiarity with the animal's behavior and anatomy, skill at stalking, lack of nervous excitement--these all play a part.

I'm pretty danged good with a rifle, but were I hunting new territory and for a new-to-me type of animal, I'd tend to go bigger rather than smaller. Just a form of insurance, the way I see it. The old "Why push your luck?" thing.

Ray33 · June 17, 2010, 04:52 PM

Having lived in Alaska for several years I can say with utmost certainty that the native Alaskans aren't impressive hunters. Just because they use .223 or .22 doesn't mean anything in my opinion. I don't see why a bear couldn't be killed by one but I don't believe that native Alaskans are the hunters we should be basing that standard off. The only native Alaskans I'm ever impressed by anymore are sober ones.

May 17, 2010, 08:06 AM	#35
crghss Junior member Join Date: July 1, 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 537	Best way to stay out of trouble... ....avoid it in the first place. You need to alert the Authorities. If you shot a bear on U.S. Gov't property no telling the amount of people you'll upset, unless you're in immediate danger of course. Worse then having a bear running around base housing is having a wounded bear running around base housing. You don't want that on your hands. No need to insult you friend. Weather he killed a bear with a .223 is immaterial. His experience/story doesn't have any bearing on what you decide to do. You see all the postings of .223's and smaller being used for bear. If I decide to go bear hunting you know what amount influence they'd have on my decision to pick a rifle? None.

May 18, 2010, 09:05 PM	#39
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	No, I do not use anything 22 caliber for hunting deer. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

June 10, 2010, 06:26 PM	#43
Microgunner Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,324	When I lived in Chistochina Ak my neighbor, Bill Barnhart, killed a very impressive brown bear with a .222. It was actually a grizzly and would have been a record holder but the Boone & Crockett people said it was too close to the coast and therefore a brownie. The rug mount was on his wall and it was HUGE. He heard it coming down his driveway and grabbed the only loaded rifle in the house, his .222 he kept by the back door for varmints. (2) shots. First one broke the bears shoulder, the second in the bears ear after he calmed down. Bill was an expert hunter and trapper and knew he could harvest the monster with the little .222 and he was right. __________________ *Proud NRA Benefactor Member*

June 11, 2010, 08:38 AM	#48
Grady Member Join Date: April 20, 2010 Posts: 15	Bears and .223's In my early experiences in Alaska and Canada, the natives universally had the venerable 30.30, with a scattering of .22's. I saw lots of big game taken with both, but, also saw a lot of cripples get away to die lingering deaths. The natives, being native, were not chastised by anyone for the crippling and waste of game, sad. Point of the story is, yes, one can kill a bear with almost anything, but can also cripple a lot. A good friend, who was also a guide, had as his weapon of choice when going into the alders after a cripple, an 18" barreled Winchester Model 97 12 gauge loaded with 3" slugs. Hunting with a Remington .338 and a guide once upon a time, I asked him where to shoot a Grizzly who obviously wanted a piece of us, he said "in the shoulders and often", wanted to break it down to keep it off us. Good advice.

May 16, 2010, 09:29 PM	#27
Bigjfb Member Join Date: April 27, 2010 Posts: 65	OP, more likely to die in car accident or struck by lightning than that bear harming you or yours. That being said, if the bear ever is an actual threat to you, than he is already close enough where a 300 win mag is justified regardless of how many houses are in your area. A stray .223 aint going to tickle if it hits somebody. In what scenario do you see yourself firing on this bear anyway? If he's on your porch? In your house? What?

May 16, 2010, 11:04 PM	#28
2500ak Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2010 Posts: 132	I'm going to disagree with Bigjfb, I don't doubt the validity of his made up statistic, just the applicability. On average yes its more likely the average person will be in a car accident or stuck my lightening, that is because most people do not live in proximity to such bears. Within the Anchorage city limits not so much, we've had a number of bears passing though our neighborhood. A few sighted per year. Enough that we can't put our garbage cans out until the morning of garbage day. I can't think of one place that I would go hiking and not be concerned about of bear encounter. Alaska has a lot of bears, I've known people who hunt bears off the river that runs through Fairbanks just a little ways out of town. I'm not saying its likely but, I am saying don't take a .223 into the woods for bear protection. Grizzlies are quite aggressive and often attack, he has good reason to be worried. Statically though, the moose are more dangerous. They're not skiddish like deer and they're very territorial. A lot more people get stomped each year by moose than attacked by bears.

May 16, 2010, 11:16 PM	#29
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	I know at least 20 folks who have killed polar bears and the like with .223 or less One of the best hunters I know carries a .223 pistol for bear protection Wildbeatsa44magnumAlaska TM

May 16, 2010, 11:19 PM	#30
Bigjfb Member Join Date: April 27, 2010 Posts: 65	Lightning kills about 100 people per year in the US, bears less than one per year. Yet "what gun for bear defense?" threads are far more popular than "WHo makes the best lightning rod?" threads. Maybe because most would rather die from a lightning strike vs a bear strike? Cars kill many people a day, when was the last time someone asked "Who makes the safest pick-up truck/hunting rig?" All I am saying is, if it comes down to a situation where you have to shoot a grizz to save your life or the life of a loved one, you dang well better use the biggest gun you got. In the meantime, buckle-up.

May 17, 2010, 01:25 AM	#31
2500ak Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2010 Posts: 132	Not a lot of people get killed by bears, but a lot of people encounter bears. Even from a distance that's a nervewracking situation. I agree that I'd rather be prepared with a large rifle. I'm sure you can kill a bear with .223, but I'd have to be both a braver man and a better marksman to try it myself.

May 17, 2010, 02:45 AM	#32
.300 Weatherby Mag Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Posts: 1,777	I don't care how well anyone does on bears with .223.. I'm still going to carry a .375....

May 17, 2010, 03:09 AM	#33
Nnobby45 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2004 Posts: 3,150	Saw a documentary decades ago about Alaska natives hunting Grizzlies with .22 LR. Worked fine. Their tactics were to catch them swimming and come up behind them in a boat, and kill them with one well placed shot.

May 17, 2010, 03:55 AM	#34
roklok Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2008 Location: Fort Yukon, Alaska Posts: 735	Here is a polar bear that was killed with a .223 : http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=45973 It was shot by a friend of mine here in Fort Yukon, and I believe is the one that someone mentioned earlier in the thread. I have personal knowledge of a number of bears, caribou and moose killed with .223, it is a popular cartridge in bush Alaska. Usually in a Mini-14 or AR-15. I have not killed any bears with .223, but have killed a couple caribou with .223, it is effective if bullet is placed right.

May 17, 2010, 04:11 PM	#36
2500ak Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2010 Posts: 132	My understanding is that Alaskan law dictates that if a large animal, whether it be moose or bear or whathaveyou, is a threat to your person you are well within your rights to shoot it. You aren't however allowed to keep the meat if its out of season, by law you have to turn it over to fish and game who then donate it to the soup kitchens where its used to feed the poor people. That's what I've always heard at least, I've never had to use that provision.

May 17, 2010, 04:52 PM	#37
kodiakbeer Junior member Join Date: April 10, 2010 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 791	Alaska natives use the .223 a lot, for all kinds of big game, and they're generally using the cheapest fmj they can find. That doesn't mean it's a good choice for hunting because the part you don't hear about is that they're usually shooting from a snowmobile or ATV and they just keep chasing and shooting until the animal falls down. That may sound unsporting, but it isn't sport hunting. It's subsistence hunting, no different than using a net instead of a fly rod to catch fish, from their point of view.

June 10, 2010, 03:54 PM	#40
daniel paydar Junior Member Join Date: October 12, 2009 Location: sweden Posts: 14	head shot with the fmj bullet in 223 will kill any animal maybe with exception of elephant. using average soft point varmint bullet is a mad thing to do because there is always chance of lack of penetration. a hit in CNS with good bullet can stop or kill any animal, but missing that target with a 223 in hand and your chance of geting killed is great too.

June 11, 2010, 02:11 AM	#44
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2008 Posts: 2,607	Is it possible to kill a bear with a 223? Yes. Is it a good idea to hunt one on purpose with a 223? No.

June 11, 2010, 06:20 AM	#46
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	There is nothing on land that can't be killed with a good shot to the head with a 223. Don't overestimate your shooting skill in a possibly frantic situation on something that will kill you.

June 11, 2010, 08:01 AM	#47
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	In Arkansas, sadly, we have some people who poach bears while they are denned up in the winter. One sorry sort I met uses a .223. He crawls into the cave and pumps about a half dozen into their head then drags out the body. And, he leaves any cubs behind to starve and die. Yes, you can kill bears with a .223. You can also invade Iran with a fly swatter. But, I wouldn't reccomend it.

June 11, 2010, 08:59 AM	#49
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Just opinion, but there is a lot of difference between the occasional hunter and the hunter who goes out regularly--particularly subsistence hunters. Things like familiarity with the animal's behavior and anatomy, skill at stalking, lack of nervous excitement--these all play a part. I'm pretty danged good with a rifle, but were I hunting new territory and for a new-to-me type of animal, I'd tend to go bigger rather than smaller. Just a form of insurance, the way I see it. The old "Why push your luck?" thing.

June 17, 2010, 04:52 PM	#50
Ray33 Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Posts: 33	Having lived in Alaska for several years I can say with utmost certainty that the native Alaskans aren't impressive hunters. Just because they use .223 or .22 doesn't mean anything in my opinion. I don't see why a bear couldn't be killed by one but I don't believe that native Alaskans are the hunters we should be basing that standard off. The only native Alaskans I'm ever impressed by anymore are sober ones.