Want to Build a Quickdraw/Fanning Gun

[jmar]

So basically i know nothing about this subject other than basic mechanics of a revolver. I have found information on this subject extremely hard to come by so any help is appreciated.

What i need help with is just selecting a gun, and modifications to do with it. I'm not building this gun to abide by any rules. Not really a competitive type of person. Maybe in the future.



So far i've selected the Ruger Blackhawk, Ruger Vaquero, and Uberti Cattleman as candidates.

I have questions about each.

Blackhawk- So if i understand correctly the .357 mag old model Blackhawk bored to .45 is the best gun for this? Understandable, smaller, lighter gun with Rugers great quality. But why is the old model Blackhawk better than the new model?


Vaquero- This kind of relates to the last question, can the vaquero be bought in a smaller caliber like the Blackhawk and be bored out to .45? or is the frame the same size already? Also New or old model, i often see people say the new model is better but that contradicts the Blackhawk where they say old..


Cattleman- This one is simple, what exactly is weaker about the Uberti Cattleman "SAA"? Is it just the springs, and if so how often would they break? I'd be fine with buying several sets of replacement springs to have an more original looking gun.


Thanks, any other help/experience is welcome!

[Hawg]

The Rugers I've had if you held the trigger when you cocked it the cylinder wouldn't advance. For a Uberti you would need to add a hammer stop, a bolt block and shorten the hand a smidge which would make it out of time for normal use. Fanning is hard as hell on a stock gun and parts will wear out fast. Maybe 45dragoon will chime in. He can tell you more than I can, he modifies guns for fanning.

[Malamute]

The Rugers I've had if you held the trigger when you cocked it the cylinder wouldn't advance.

Havent ever seen that phenomenon, old or new model Rugers. Have shot them a lot holding the trigger back and thumbing the hammer with left thumb two handed grip.

Back on topic, I wouldn't try it with the Uberti, I don't believe they are going to hold up as well as the Ruger for what you ask about.

Ruger has made smaller frame vaqueros in both 357 and 45 Colt, they are the same frame and cylinder diameter, so boring out a 357 to 45 is not any help. Same for their flat top Blackhawks of recent make.

[Hawg]

I had a SBH I bought new in the early 80's that did it and Single Six from the same time period that did it. I had an Old Vaq Bisley for a short while but never tried with it.

[4V50 Gary]

Vaquero > Blackhawk. No adjustable sight to eat your hand. I'd modify the hammer but I'm not into fanning. Old Fuff at THR had a very good post about what an old AZ Ranger said about fanning.

[jmar]

The Rugers I've had if you held the trigger when you cocked it the cylinder wouldn't advance. For a Uberti you would need to add a hammer stop, a bolt block and shorten the hand a smidge which would make it out of time for normal use. Fanning is hard as hell on a stock gun and parts will wear out fast. Maybe 45dragoon will chime in. He can tell you more than I can, he modifies guns for fanning.

I have a Ruger New Vaquero and it cycles normally when the trigger is held.

[jmar]

Vaquero > Blackhawk. No adjustable sight to eat your hand. I'd modify the hammer but I'm not into fanning. Old Fuff at THR had a very good post about what an old AZ Ranger said about fanning.

I read that very interesting, but i'm aware it isn't historically correct i just find it fun and challenging. Also if i got a Blackhawk i was planning on grinding off the sights.

[Hawg]

I have a Ruger New Vaquero and it cycles normally when the trigger is held.

I guess I'm mistaken then. It's been awhile since I had a Ruger and I know I had two guns that did it and would have sworn it was the Rugers.

[Andrewh]

so I was into quick draw for a while.
they don't use live ammo for their contests. There are still a few around, but it seems they modified it a bit.

But to your point, they used to take the old 3 screw ruger single six guns and bore bore out the cylinders and barrel, so the rear was still 22, the front was 45 or 38 and the barrel was replaced with aluminum and bored out to match.

These felt like cap guns they were so light.

The big guns that started as 38 or 45 they would replace both the cylinder and barrel with aluminum for wax shooting. using a shot gun primer in a modified 45 shells that accepted the primer and a wax bullet.

When shooting blanks, they went back to the metal cylinders.

Some kept the stock hammer. Others went for a fanning hammer, that basically raised a flat part above the sight line of the gun you could catch faster.

Internal modifications included a lighter trigger and hammer spring as well as a stop in the grip.
In order to prevent over spin of the cylinder, especially for the steel ones, they put a stop under the hammer rod so you could not slow cock the gun.
If you slow cocked it, the hammer could not go back far enough to move the prawl(I think is what it is called) to rotate the cylinder far enough to engage the lock.
2 points to this. Normally you can see if you cock the hammer and pull a little farther, the cylinder is still trying to rotate and push past the lock.
This prevents you from accidently damaging it during a fast cock or fanning manuver.
Similarrly, it only allows the momentum of the spin to carry it to lock, reducing the force on the lock when it engages the cyinder.

If you attempt this on any stock gun it will shortly start to over spin the cylinder and no longer lock up on the hammer back.
I would say my first gun did that in about a month of practicing, and I had to send it back to ruger to fix it.

[Crunchy Frog]

First accept that fact that no revolver is designed to be fanned. It's hard on the internal parts.

I shoot single action revolvers in SASS cowboy action matches; our rules specifically prohibit fanning, for safety reasons.

The Cowboy Fast Draw Association is where you want to look for information. Those folks use wax bullets propelled by a shotgun primer. The fellow who made three sets of cowboy holsters for me offers a CFDA rig; it has a leather covered steel "blast deflector" on the bottom of the holster. That's a signal to me that setting off a round while the revolver is in the holster is not unheard of.

Would I fan one of my revolvers? No. Would I do it with real ammunition? Not on a bet.

There are some non-firing replicas out there if you just want something to play with.

[Hawg]

Would I fan one of my revolvers? No. Would I do it with real ammunition? Not on a bet.

I did it a lot when I was young and got fairly accurate doing it. Even did it with some original 1st gen Colt's but I outgrew it by the time I was 14.

[Andrewh]

That is correct, they have a steel spoon attached to the bottom of the holster to deflect the wax or blast away from their leg.
some old timers talked about people popping their knee caps off or skinning their legs with wax or full house blanks.

You don't have to have it, but they recommend it. I competed a couple of years with just a standard cowboy rig.
But I also wasn't near as fast as the other guys.

I also used the full size vaquaro with only the hammer stop mod. So I was out classed by gear and people. lol.

I have seen guys fanning the gun and walking it on target, firing all 5 off(I seemed to recall requiring an empty but might be confused with sass) still in under half a second.

[jmar]

so I was into quick draw for a while.
they don't use live ammo for their contests. There are still a few around, but it seems they modified it a bit.

But to your point, they used to take the old 3 screw ruger single six guns and bore bore out the cylinders and barrel, so the rear was still 22, the front was 45 or 38 and the barrel was replaced with aluminum and bored out to match.

These felt like cap guns they were so light.

The big guns that started as 38 or 45 they would replace both the cylinder and barrel with aluminum for wax shooting. using a shot gun primer in a modified 45 shells that accepted the primer and a wax bullet.

When shooting blanks, they went back to the metal cylinders.

Some kept the stock hammer. Others went for a fanning hammer, that basically raised a flat part above the sight line of the gun you could catch faster.

Internal modifications included a lighter trigger and hammer spring as well as a stop in the grip.
In order to prevent over spin of the cylinder, especially for the steel ones, they put a stop under the hammer rod so you could not slow cock the gun.
If you slow cocked it, the hammer could not go back far enough to move the prawl(I think is what it is called) to rotate the cylinder far enough to engage the lock.
2 points to this. Normally you can see if you cock the hammer and pull a little farther, the cylinder is still trying to rotate and push past the lock.
This prevents you from accidently damaging it during a fast cock or fanning manuver.
Similarrly, it only allows the momentum of the spin to carry it to lock, reducing the force on the lock when it engages the cyinder.

If you attempt this on any stock gun it will shortly start to over spin the cylinder and no longer lock up on the hammer back.
I would say my first gun did that in about a month of practicing, and I had to send it back to ruger to fix it.

Thanks for the info helpful stuff. Do you have a picture of one of these .22 single sixes bored to .45? They sound very interesting.

[Andrewh]

I don't personally own one.
http://www.fastdraw.org/fd_guns.html
just some info.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Thanks for the info helpful stuff. Do you have a picture of one of these .22 single sixes bored to .45? They sound very interesting.

You cannot bore out the chambers of a Single Six to 45 Colt, the cylinder is not large enough. Single Sixes were chambered at one time for 32 H&R Magnum, and they can even have their chambers bored out for 38 Special, but then you would have to change out the rimfire firing pin for a centerfire pin. But a Single Six cylinder is not large enough to rechamber to 45.

[45 Dragoon]

Hmmm, Nobody has mentioned a bolt block or timing adjustment. Makes no sense to have a light trigger that will be held back for fanning. The Colt action can be made pretty much "bullet proof " if you know what to do. This talk of lightening springs and an action stop and you have a "fanner" is hogwash!! No wonder folks had /have problems!
I've fanned my El Patron almost daily for 3 years with no parts breakage. The wire combo spring was changed to flat when I "tuned" it (as soon as I got it home!!) . The action on it cycles normally with early bolt drop, a true fanner would stop cycling just short of battery.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[44 Dave]

Nobody mentioned a Mattel Fanner 50

[Hawg]

Hmmm, Nobody has mentioned a bolt block or timing adjustment.

Go back and read post #2.

[45 Dragoon]

Dang!!!

Fergot Hawg!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[4V50 Gary]

Jmar - if you grind off the sight base, you still have to put some metal in it to recontour it. Then you need to mill out the sight channel.

[g.willikers]

You could practice with this:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Colt_S...er_Nickel/3909
It fans real well.

[drobs]

g.w.

Air guns? Not no but hell no.

Been reading Gun's of the Old West since 2009.
Rumor has it they are back...?

They need to dump the air pistols. Wasted space / wasted advertisements.
Then again maybe they are picking up the preteen crowd...

That being said, being a young man here... age 41, do you oldtimers like CO2 air guns? I like the Red Ryder I picked up for $15 a couple years ago after visiting the Daisy Air Gun Museum in Arkansas.

For $129, as an adut, I'd rather buy a BP C&B gun - for the smoke, flash, and freedom.





What's Hawg got to say. What was the last year Hawg put down hard earned cash for a CO2 airgun?

I'm going to guess either 1954 or never.

[4V50 Gary]

Airguns are fun and great for removing pests. However, I'd rather have cap 'n ball for smoke, light show, noise and more fun.

[Hawg]

What's Hawg got to say. What was the last year Hawg put down hard earned cash for a CO2 airgun?

I'm going to guess either 1954 or never.
__________________

I wasn't here in 54 but it was sometime in the late 70's or early 80's. Still have it but the seals are shot. I have looked at a few but couldn't get past the price. I did buy an air soft 1911 not long ago for dog plinking. And yes I cut the stupid looking orange tip off of it.

[g.willikers]

I actually have one of those CO2 sixguns, and a Remington '58, too of course.
But for some reason my wife objects to my shooting the cap and ball at home in the garage.
Wimmin.