Shooting animals for the sake of shooting them?

[Wrothgar]

Nickanto
Member

Join Date: January 13, 2009
Posts: 32

I shoot yotes because it's fun and it's legal. There are plenty of them. Any questions?

Yeah, see, to me this IS a sick person. There should be no joy in killing. I tend to take the Native American perspective to hunting/killing; do it when necessary, and never take joy/pleasure in it, but give thanks instead.

[2damnold4this]

Do you hunt, Wrothgar?

[Wrothgar]

I haven't had the opportunity to but I want to (I don't have the opportunity to as I am newly married and she is still in school so I'm kind of still supporting both of us and we don't have any land.). I also don't have anywhere to put a deer, as all we have is a tiny refrigerator in our apartment. I have taken my hunter's safety course.

What I have also done, however, is killed and gutted a fish, so I obviously have no problem killing something... if it is not going to waste. I've also shot turtles in a pond(when I was young/growing up we had land) as they were eating ducks and fish. I got no joy from it, as I find turtles fascinating and had a pet turtle as a kid. It most certainly did not make me feel good about myself, nor did I find it "fun".

[Bolosniper]

It is always the people that don't deal with a problem that see no problem, and coyote and wolf predation is a major problem here in SW Montana. The major, and almost the only, industry in SW Montana is cattle ranching and most of the Western Angus beef most of you buy at the grocery store comes from here. It is a financial disaster for a rancher to lose a large number of calves over the course of a winter which is calving season. I won't even start on the wolf problem as this thread is about coyotes.

Anyone who has hunted either animal has found that they aren't easy to get a sight picture on, and it is most certainly not like "shooting fish in a barrel". In this area the coyotes are very educated and most will not respond to a caller. In fact most of the time calling or using an electronic caller is counter productive as they have learned that it is probably a hunter and vamoose the AO quickly.

Most of my shots on coyotes are at medium (500 yards) to long range only, and are taken at sunrise or sunset depending on the moon phase. I scout for sign (tracks) in the most likely avenue of approach to the dinner they hope to get, and then set up to catch them en-route from their den to the dinner table. My sets are all on cattle ranches and are among the cattle as that is where you find the bastards. They eat the afterbirth and the calves, and as pointed out by someone else in this thread, will attack a cow in the middle of giving birth to take the calf when the cow is virtually helpless. I have seen a number of new born calf carcasses that have accidentally been stomped by the mother trying to defend the calf from coyotes or wolves also.

Coyotes are the most adaptable predator on the face of this planet and are the only predator that you will find coexisting in a built up urban or even a city environment. I have seen coyotes in broad daylight in a city or in the suburbs walking around like a stray dog going from trash can to dumpster looking for a meal, and the residents of the area not even aware that the animal isn't a dog! The last time I witnessed that was in the Southside of Chicago at 103rd Street and Damen Avenue. The batsard was walking through a field by a liquor store and there was a crowd of people hanging out there that were totally oblivious to the animal which was no further than 50 to 75 yards from them, and again IN BROAD DAYLIGHT! He trotted across the field and entered an alley behind a restaurant and went straight for the dumpster as if he owned the place.

[Art Eatman]

"The coyote is a survivor,
I reckon he's got to be;
Lives in the snow at 40 below,
And in Malibu-by-the-sea..."

Ian Tyson

[The Tourist]

Bolosniper, I see a world of difference between your righteous endeavors and those of "thrill killers."

There are numerous 'hunters' who truck thousands of varmint rounds to South Dakota just to see pieces of animals fly apart.

Contrast that to hunter safety courses and responsible management of ducks and whitetail dear. Would a person schooled from these ranks go fishing with dynamite?

In Wisconsin, we call those guys "slob hunters." They'll cut a fence and trespass while they're whining about their rights. They excuse their abuses by implying that anyone who eats meat and derides their conduct must be a hypocrite.

[Wrothgar]

What Tourist said.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by The Tourist

Bolosniper, I see a world of difference between your righteous endeavors and those of "thrill killers."

There are numerous 'hunters' who truck thousands of varmint rounds to South Dakota just to see pieces of animals fly apart.

Contrast that to hunter safety courses and responsible management of ducks and whitetail dear. Would a person schooled from these ranks go fishing with dynamite?

In Wisconsin, we call those guys "slob hunters." They'll cut a fence and trespass while they're whining about their rights. They excuse their abuses by implying that anyone who eats meat and derides their conduct must be a hypocrite.

You are tying together two entirely unrelated behaviors. One is legal and responsible, the other illegal and irresponsible.

I have great fun shooting woodchucks. I do NOTHING with them besides drop them in a hole. I laugh when they explode. Iv'e never shot a prairie dog but I would gladly do so with 1000s of rounds of ammunition and laugh while doing it.

I have NEVER cut a fence and trespassed. I have never left a property in worse condition than I found it. I am NOT a "slob hunter" and I resent the implication that I am one simply because I kill animals that I don't eat.

Your "contrast" of hunting prairie dogs versus hunters safety courses and management programs is a non-starter. There is nothing unsafe about shooting prairie dogs and there is no violation of "game management" ideals. There is a hardly a shortage of crop destroying, animal injuring equipment damaging rodents in this world.

[Wrothgar]

Anyone who "laughs" while killing something is a sicko, at least in my book. I understand your desire to control pests, but killing should not be a pleasure. It should only be done as necessary.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Anyone who "laughs" while killing something is a sicko, at least in my book. I understand your desire to control pests, but killing should not be a pleasure. It should only be done as necessary.

I'm not laughing at the killing. I'm laughing at the "spectacle". How am I any less moral if I use only a gun that does minimal damage? That's just makes no sense. I laugh at the results not at the "killing".



"should"

"should not"

"necessary"


Say who?

[Wrothgar]

It's just nothing I would ever find enjoyable, even "the spectacle". I dunno, if I ever flipped a deer with my Mauser, I would probably be proud of myself for such a well placed shot, but I would be more proud that I dropped the animal with minimal suffering. I understand that's what you're doing by sending guts flying, but still, laughing?

And while prairie dogs are not going extinct, their numbers have dropped drastically in the last 100 years. They do damage crops (after asking my cotton farming in-laws in West Texas) but they also keep range land open for cattle, leaving grass for the cattle while eating other plants that cattle don't eat.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I understand that's what you're doing by sending guts flying, but still, laughing?

Yep.

I laugh when I shoot balloons that explode too.... and soda cans, cans of paint, apples, pumpkins and grapefuit too.... lots of stuff.

Same effect. Same laugh.

Where's the moral police for the paint cans?

[Wrothgar]

paint cans aren't alive.

[HiBC]

Food has gotten so expensive I mostly eat it,and I love grapefruit,but,darn they make a nice target!!!No objectionable litter,and that explosion in the scope!!!
Sorry,I understand the ideology,and respect the concept behind it,but it is a bit like saying sex is only for making babies and we really are not supposed to enjoy it.
Few folks go to the field with blanks.
I like the thump of a solid hit.I like an instant kill.
I am honest enough to say so.I will not posture the politically correct response for approval.
When the rancher says"Would you shoot some of those prairie dogs for me?"
I do not hang my head ,shed a tear,and sigh,"Oh,if I must"

I get a big smile,Say"Well,Yeah!!!" and I have a lot of fun killing prairie dogs.

You think what you want.

[running iron]

As a retired Marine, I take no pleasure in killing and have not hunted in many years but agree with the fact that, if done correctly, is a source of game management. As far as varmints go, they are a valuable source of food for many other species. I enjoy watching a eagle or hawk swoop down on a prairie dog and is far better IMO, than me shooting it for FUN. As far a coyotes, if they are messing with your livestock, you better shoot them. Other wise, the Government pays other people to kill them when and where they need to be thinned out, like to protect the Antelope. They know best, at least better than me, how many need to be killed. I live in the mountains and see these morons from the city come up here to shoot things with no regard for where their bullets go. It's amazing to see how ignorant they are and how unsafe. It's a wonder more people aren't killed by mistake. Any one that thinks it's fun to splatter some creature's guts all over the dirt needs to have some one trying to do the same to them and see if it's still fun. You know, even out the odds a little. Killing for fun is just macho B.S. and is cowardly when the thing you are shooting has no chance at all.

[BGutzman]

In my family if you shoot it you eat it, the only exceptions are skunks and porcupine.

[Brian Pfleuger]

paint cans aren't alive.

Who gets to decide how, when and why that matters?

[HiBC]

The old ranch I hunt prairie dogs on never had any prairie dogs till some morons decided to build houses toward the foothills.A prairie dog town was in their way,so just like the folks who dump dogs and cats in the country,the PDs were vacuumed out of their holes and transplanted to some city owned ground near the ranch.The PDs like the ranch better.

The PDs do not create grassy areas.They strip the ground to bare earth.

The rancher balances the idea of having a controlled PD town through shooting,or using bubble gum and poison to eliminate all the PDs.

Hawks,eagles??I like them ,too.I don't shoot the burrowing owls among the PD's.either.
But the harsh reality is,if this town takes too much from the rancher,it will be poisoned.

I also do not shoot white spots on cliffs.Eagles make white spots below their nests.

Folks,even putting houses in the mountains or foothills pushes deer and moutain lions and coyotes into the edges of the city,where they get in trouble..

With all due respect to all veterans,(I am not a veteran) I have seen footage of troops reacting to a sniper being taken out by a missle,or a successful sniper shot,or a chain gun delivering effective fire,or night vision images of a gunship eliminating folks.and those guys reacted like the home team scored a touchdown.

I suspect when a lion takes down a wildebeast they feel good about it.

When I killed the bear that bit my wife, something happened.Maybe all the adrenaline/fear/fight/flight juices had to transform so I wouldn't explode,but something powerful happened.It felt good.

I'm not an LEO,but,despite the fact a politically correct,traumatized face has to be put on an LEO who makes an appropriate shoot,I suspect when a really bad guy goes down and the LEO gets to go home to his family,the LEO feels good about it.

You all,do whatever is true for you.I will do what is true for me.

[Magnum Mike]

Forgive me! Because I do get enjoyment out of shooting rats too!

[Wrothgar]

peetzakilla
Senior Member

Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central NY, USA
Posts: 5,521
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Quote:
paint cans aren't alive.
Who gets to decide how, when and why that matters?

I'm not saying anyone should. I am going to say that we are going to disagree on this, and you're going to say what you say and I'm going to say what I say.

[Wrothgar]

Originally Posted by running iron

As a retired Marine, I take no pleasure in killing and have not hunted in many years but agree with the fact that, if done correctly, is a source of game management. As far as varmints go, they are a valuable source of food for many other species. I enjoy watching a eagle or hawk swoop down on a prairie dog and is far better IMO, than me shooting it for FUN. As far a coyotes, if they are messing with your livestock, you better shoot them. Other wise, the Government pays other people to kill them when and where they need to be thinned out, like to protect the Antelope. They know best, at least better than me, how many need to be killed. I live in the mountains and see these morons from the city come up here to shoot things with no regard for where their bullets go. It's amazing to see how ignorant they are and how unsafe. It's a wonder more people aren't killed by mistake. Any one that thinks it's fun to splatter some creature's guts all over the dirt needs to have some one trying to do the same to them and see if it's still fun. You know, even out the odds a little. Killing for fun is just macho B.S. and is cowardly when the thing you are shooting has no chance at all.

I'm going to agree with this guy, except I anticipate feeding my family by hunting one of these days when we have land to feed them from.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by wrothgar

I'm not saying anyone should. I am going to say that we are going to disagree on this, and you're going to say what you say and I'm going to say what I say.

Well, now, wait a minute. We aren't "disagreeing". You said that laughing about killing things makes me a "sicko". That's not a disagreement, it's a character judgement. If you're going to make that judgement then it would be helpful to have it defined in some sensible way.

Paint cans aren't alive. They're fine to "kill" and laugh about it.

What about spiders? I kill them because my wife is scared of them. No other reason.

Grass is alive. What if I enjoy mowing my lawn? Am I a sicko?

Is it only "animal" life? What about bacteria? Is it only vertebrates? Can I light an ant hill on fire and laugh or does that make me a sicko?

What if I bow hunt for fish and "Ooh and Aah" when a good shot is made? Is that enjoyment of the kill?

What if I shoot flys that land on my target and think it's fun?

This gets pretty complicated.... seems almost like there should be solid rules or something.

[Art Eatman]

Opinion does not equal truth, nor does repetition of it create fact.

Enuf.