LC Brass

Bucksnort1 · February 29, 2016, 09:40 PM

Some questions and comments about LC.

Does LC produce only military spec ammunition? While brass hunting, this past weekend, I found a lot of LC 5.56. It is easy, generally, to distinguish LC brass from .223 brass because of the dark area at the neck and shoulder, which is caused by the annealing process. I did find some LC 5.56 brass without the discoloration. Is it that annealing doesn't always discolor the brass?

F. Guffey · February 29, 2016, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Is it that annealing doesn't always discolor the brass?

There is no way to get around annealing. From start to finish a brass case will require as many as 5 annealing's before it is loaded.
I have a few cases that were manufactured suspect because the manufacturer took short cuts. As always I had fired the cases before I was aware there could be a problem.

F. Guffey

Mozella · March 2, 2016, 04:01 AM

If it's "found" brass, it could very well have been cleaned and reloaded by an individual. Or, depending on the process used, the factory may have annealed the brass and then cleaned/polished it for appearance/marketing purposes.

In any event, you can rest assured it was annealed several times during the original manufacturing process. But the typical discoloration associated with annealing usually disappears during the next cleaning process.

cryogenic419 · March 2, 2016, 06:00 AM

If its new brass or new ammo from LC it will have the staining. You can however tumble the new brass or clean and polish the once fired and the staining disappears.

I hear other companies polish the brass after the annealing and then dip in a chemical to maintain that shiny brass appearance/prevent oxidation.

As far as does LC only produce mil spec ammo, yes pretty much. They exist to service the military's needs. While some of the ammo/components coming out of there makes it way to the civillian market it is all mil spec.

http://www.jmc.army.mil/Installations.aspx?id=LakeCity

Ben Dover · March 2, 2016, 10:14 AM

IME, LC brass is as good as it gets!

FrankenMauser · March 2, 2016, 11:14 AM

All LC brass is manufactured to military specifications. Sometimes they have over-runs or out of spec batches that get sold off.

If you want to know if it's only once-fired, just take a look at the primer. Crimped primers are factory. Anything else is suspect. (Still worth picking up - just keep in mind that it's likely at least twice fired.)

alb · March 2, 2016, 12:35 PM

All brass is annealed; as Guffey says, you can't avoid it. The military doesn't require their brass to look pretty, thus the traces are still there. Commercial brass in general must look pretty, so it's cleaned up afterward.

Check the LC brass you found for the presence of a crimp around the primer pocket. If it's missing, and the brass doesn't also have an 'LR' in addition to the 'LC' on the head stamp, chances are it's been reloaded.

54 guns · March 2, 2016, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Does LC produce only military spec ammunition?

Yes. The letters LC stand for Lake City Army Ammunition Plant. It is owned by the US Army, and operated by ATK, thus it is no surprise they only make mil spec ammo.

**Unclenick** · March 2, 2016, 01:59 PM

Military brass has its staining left intact on purpose. Originally it was to distinguish the finished cartridges from those that were assembled using brass that was not annealed. Cleaning, but not annealing, had been the standard military manufacturing practice before it was discovered a final post-forming neck annealing step was necessary to prevent season cracking of cartridge necks during storage. Subsequently, Hatcher did an experiment in the 1920's which proved the thin oxide layers are also protective and the discolored brass actually has better corrosion resistance in harsh environments than polished brass does. So now, even though none of the WWI era cartridges without annealed necks are any longer in military stockpiles, the staining is left in place for corrosion resistance. Lapua also leaves the neck annealing stain intact on their brass, likely for the same reason. So you can't always tell military brass by the presence of the staining.

Crimped primers are always used on military cartridges to prevent primers from popping out during full auto weapon fire and falling into and jamming the mechanism. Some non-military cartridges get crimped now, too, but I don't know the reason. Perhaps even some semi-autos are letting primers get loose if they aren't crimped. I haven't found the issue myself, but there are a lot of different gun designs out there.

JeepHammer · March 3, 2016, 06:38 PM

I'm with everyone else,
If it has the military crimp in place, its once fired.
Annealing doesn't bother a thing, its actually a way to know the brass was formed correctly.

I anneal about all bottle neck brass, removes the stress from crimps/work hardening,
Restores proper neck tension to the case neck in the event you are not going to crimp and want a brand new brass case release of the bullet.
(Mostly bolt rifle guys, nearly all semi-auto shooters will crimp a little to prevent the bullet from getting banged back into the case)

LC is Lake City, MO., just outside Springfield, MO.
Its the largest ammunition plant in the world, small arms, from hand fired weapons up to 20mm rounds are produced there for all branches of the military.

Winchester used to run it, ATK, the same people that own Federal, CCI, ect took over operation, and with the big government (Homeland Security) buy up of over 2 Billion rounds, in 2012 ATK got the government to accept the standard SAAMI specification cases,
So .223 & 5.56 are exactly the same case, save the crimped primer and military cases have sealed primers & bullets for water resistance.

Virtually everything produced in 5.56 NATO from civilian suppliers (not LC) will have a crimped primer now,
Along with a bunch of .223 will have crimped primers.

The line between .223 & 5.56 has been further blurred...
The two billion plus government order has a lot of .223 head stamped ammo out there with crimped primers and crimped bullets, even if you don't want those crimps...

LC 5.56 brass has always been perfectly safe to load for .223 and its just a pain in the butt to remove the crimp so you can reliably install a new primer without it snagging...
There are 'Swaging' tools that push the crimp back (Muscle),
There are nifty cutters that zip the crimp off,
Its up to you what you use.

Its a one time process, once the crimp is gone, you don't have to do it again.

Personally, once fired LC brass is the best deal in .223 shooting in my opinion.
A good set of dies to push the brass back where it belongs,
Remember, most LC brass is pumped through sloppy chambers, so a good resize is a must, and reload with your favorite home roll & have fun!

Some of us go a little farther,
You will need a rock solid press frame to get them back to EXACTLY SAAMI spec,
Anneal the necks, ect.
Plinking ammo is easy, highly accurate ammo cases is a little more work.
There is ZERO difference in the base brass I can detect,
They act/react like every other brass when sized,
And with a PROPER case neck anneal, I can't tell the difference between LC and any of the 'Premium' (read high $$$) brass out there.

February 29, 2016, 09:40 PM	#1
Bucksnort1 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2013 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 1,121	LC Brass Some questions and comments about LC. Does LC produce only military spec ammunition? While brass hunting, this past weekend, I found a lot of LC 5.56. It is easy, generally, to distinguish LC brass from .223 brass because of the dark area at the neck and shoulder, which is caused by the annealing process. I did find some LC 5.56 brass without the discoloration. Is it that annealing doesn't always discolor the brass?

March 2, 2016, 10:14 AM	#5
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	IME, LC brass is as good as it gets! __________________ The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower It is very important what a man stands for. But it is far more important what a man refuses to stand for.

March 2, 2016, 11:14 AM	#6
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	All LC brass is manufactured to military specifications. Sometimes they have over-runs or out of spec batches that get sold off. If you want to know if it's only once-fired, just take a look at the primer. Crimped primers are factory. Anything else is suspect. (Still worth picking up - just keep in mind that it's likely at least twice fired.) __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

March 2, 2016, 01:59 PM	#9
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Military brass has its staining left intact on purpose. Originally it was to distinguish the finished cartridges from those that were assembled using brass that was not annealed. Cleaning, but not annealing, had been the standard military manufacturing practice before it was discovered a final post-forming neck annealing step was necessary to prevent season cracking of cartridge necks during storage. Subsequently, Hatcher did an experiment in the 1920's which proved the thin oxide layers are also protective and the discolored brass actually has better corrosion resistance in harsh environments than polished brass does. So now, even though none of the WWI era cartridges without annealed necks are any longer in military stockpiles, the staining is left in place for corrosion resistance. Lapua also leaves the neck annealing stain intact on their brass, likely for the same reason. So you can't always tell military brass by the presence of the staining. Crimped primers are always used on military cartridges to prevent primers from popping out during full auto weapon fire and falling into and jamming the mechanism. Some non-military cartridges get crimped now, too, but I don't know the reason. Perhaps even some semi-autos are letting primers get loose if they aren't crimped. I haven't found the issue myself, but there are a lot of different gun designs out there. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 2, 2016, 04:01 AM	#3
Mozella Member Join Date: April 17, 2015 Posts: 83	If it's "found" brass, it could very well have been cleaned and reloaded by an individual. Or, depending on the process used, the factory may have annealed the brass and then cleaned/polished it for appearance/marketing purposes. In any event, you can rest assured it was annealed several times during the original manufacturing process. But the typical discoloration associated with annealing usually disappears during the next cleaning process.

March 2, 2016, 06:00 AM	#4
cryogenic419 Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 569	If its new brass or new ammo from LC it will have the staining. You can however tumble the new brass or clean and polish the once fired and the staining disappears. I hear other companies polish the brass after the annealing and then dip in a chemical to maintain that shiny brass appearance/prevent oxidation. As far as does LC only produce mil spec ammo, yes pretty much. They exist to service the military's needs. While some of the ammo/components coming out of there makes it way to the civillian market it is all mil spec. http://www.jmc.army.mil/Installations.aspx?id=LakeCity

March 2, 2016, 12:35 PM	#7
alb Junior Member Join Date: March 2, 2016 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 8	All brass is annealed; as Guffey says, you can't avoid it. The military doesn't require their brass to look pretty, thus the traces are still there. Commercial brass in general must look pretty, so it's cleaned up afterward. Check the LC brass you found for the presence of a crimp around the primer pocket. If it's missing, and the brass doesn't also have an 'LR' in addition to the 'LC' on the head stamp, chances are it's been reloaded.

March 3, 2016, 06:38 PM	#10
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	I'm with everyone else, If it has the military crimp in place, its once fired. Annealing doesn't bother a thing, its actually a way to know the brass was formed correctly. I anneal about all bottle neck brass, removes the stress from crimps/work hardening, Restores proper neck tension to the case neck in the event you are not going to crimp and want a brand new brass case release of the bullet. (Mostly bolt rifle guys, nearly all semi-auto shooters will crimp a little to prevent the bullet from getting banged back into the case) LC is Lake City, MO., just outside Springfield, MO. Its the largest ammunition plant in the world, small arms, from hand fired weapons up to 20mm rounds are produced there for all branches of the military. Winchester used to run it, ATK, the same people that own Federal, CCI, ect took over operation, and with the big government (Homeland Security) buy up of over 2 Billion rounds, in 2012 ATK got the government to accept the standard SAAMI specification cases, So .223 & 5.56 are exactly the same case, save the crimped primer and military cases have sealed primers & bullets for water resistance. Virtually everything produced in 5.56 NATO from civilian suppliers (not LC) will have a crimped primer now, Along with a bunch of .223 will have crimped primers. The line between .223 & 5.56 has been further blurred... The two billion plus government order has a lot of .223 head stamped ammo out there with crimped primers and crimped bullets, even if you don't want those crimps... LC 5.56 brass has always been perfectly safe to load for .223 and its just a pain in the butt to remove the crimp so you can reliably install a new primer without it snagging... There are 'Swaging' tools that push the crimp back (Muscle), There are nifty cutters that zip the crimp off, Its up to you what you use. Its a one time process, once the crimp is gone, you don't have to do it again. Personally, once fired LC brass is the best deal in .223 shooting in my opinion. A good set of dies to push the brass back where it belongs, Remember, most LC brass is pumped through sloppy chambers, so a good resize is a must, and reload with your favorite home roll & have fun! Some of us go a little farther, You will need a rock solid press frame to get them back to EXACTLY SAAMI spec, Anneal the necks, ect. Plinking ammo is easy, highly accurate ammo cases is a little more work. There is ZERO difference in the base brass I can detect, They act/react like every other brass when sized, And with a PROPER case neck anneal, I can't tell the difference between LC and any of the 'Premium' (read high $$$) brass out there.