Please help a new 44Mag reloader

mississaugagunnut · May 27, 2015, 07:18 AM

I am an experienced re loader having reloaded 9mm, 45acp, 38spl and 357.

I have just picked up a Super Black hawk in 44mag and a Marlin 94 in 44mag.

I want to load a round that can be used in both. It will be strictly for plinking. I have purchased a bunch of 240g jacketed flat point bullets and am planning on using 800x (I know, it's all I can get up here).

When I search the Hodgdon website for loads it doesn't list 800x as a rifle powder.

Should I load according to their pistol loads and use that in my rifle?

Thanks for your help.

TimSr · May 27, 2015, 07:27 AM

Yes. Those sources that list .44 mag rifle data use the same recipes, and just show different velocities. 800x will likely not give optimum performance in either, but I think you're already aware of that.

Salmoneye · May 27, 2015, 07:28 AM

Your goal may or may not be obtainable...

The groove diameter of the SBH will be .429" (or thereabouts), and the groove diameter on the 1894 will be .431" (or thereabouts)...

I only have one jacketed load that works well in both my SBH and 1894, and that is a full on load of H110 under a Hornady 265gr FP that comes in at .430"...

I can not get any jacketed bullet under .430" to do better than 5" patterns at 50 yards out of the 1894...Other people seem to have better luck...

For cast bullets, my 1894 requires a minimum of .432", and .433" is better...

Good luck!

WVMountaineer · May 27, 2015, 07:47 AM

I'm going to give you a run down to help you get started and know what to start looking for.

As stated, what powder loads you use for the pistol can be used for the rifle. As far as the bullet diameter, I'd simply load a .430 jacketed bullet and go with it. My Ruger RedHawk and 1894 shoot great with 21 grains of 2400, pushing a .430 Gold Tip Hollow point. Yours likely will too. If not, your problem is likely powder choice, not bullet diameter issues.

Keep an eye out for H110, W296, AA9, or Alliant 2400. I have never used IMR 4227 but, a lot of people do. These are great powders for the 44 mag and will really bring out the hammer effect the cartridge posses. If you use H110 and W296, load Large Pistol Magnum primers. My personal favorite powder is 2400.

Good luck. It is an easy cartridge to load and one that needs to be reloaded to shoot any at all due to price. And, if you want to get into really cheap shooting, slug the bore's and cylinder throats, get you some good lead bullets sized .001 to .002 over the bore diameter, and shoot. For the rifle, if it is a Marlin that has a large bore, Penn bullets makes a great bullet for this. One of the few I've found that will turn out .432, 240 grain bullets. I'm sure there are more but, I like Bob and his bullets. Dardas is another good one for the rifle. I shoot Missouri bullets out of my Redhawk.

I hope this helped. God Bless

riverratt · May 27, 2015, 08:14 AM

I think 13 gr of 800X gave me decent groups out of my 7 1/2 SBH using a 240 gr XTP bullet and win lpp. I don't have my notes with me now and it's been a wile so I'll have to get back with ya on that. Also if I remember correctly the same load provided acceptable accuracy in a very picky H&R of mine. I do know that no matter what I tried I couldn't get that powder to not lead with cast bullets. Like it's been said before keep your eyes open for h-110, 296,4227 or 2400 all of those powders excel in the .44mag, my favorite is h-110 or 296 (on in the same) followed closely by 4227.

riverratt · May 27, 2015, 03:30 PM

I got back to my notes and it was indeed 13 gr of 800X was my best load. It yielded around 1200 fps in the handgun and just north of 1350 from an 18" barrel. It's just on the warm side of the middle so work up your load accordingly.

sawdustdad · May 27, 2015, 03:57 PM

You know for plinking, if you can find a faster powder, you can load it down. 5-6g of 700x or Red Dot makes a pleasant shooting round. When you find 800x you might find 700x...I've been using it a lot for light loads in .38spl and .44spl.

mississaugagunnut · May 27, 2015, 04:23 PM

Thanks for the replies, I went to the supplier today to grab my 800x and was delighted to find that someone did not want their order of H4227, so now I have that powder. From what I have read it is much more suited to magnum loads. I will start researching a couple of loads and run them over a chrony.

FrankenMauser · May 27, 2015, 10:44 PM

4227 will treat you well, and work fine in both firearms.

Just don't try to mess around with it in light loads. You'll get an incomplete burn and A LOT of unburned powder left in the barrel and case.
But, it does well with moderate to hot loads.

rclark · May 28, 2015, 12:03 AM

I am sure you know you don't have to load 'magnum' loads. In fact my general load for .44Mag is just 10g of Unique under 240g SWC. That's a 1100fps load which will do most everything that needs doing. Or down to 7.5g of Unique for even lighter loads. Other powders will do too, like Red Dot, Green Dot, HS-6, 20/28, Universal, Titegroup, w231, etc.... No need for 'blast', 'noise', and 'heavy recoil' if cutting paper, plinking, and varmiting is your goal.... unless your into beating yourself up for fun

. Hah!

Use a magnum primer with 4227. You'll get more consistent velocities. No experience with 800x.

oley55 · May 28, 2015, 06:11 AM

Quote:

4227 will treat you well, and work fine in both firearms.

Just don't try to mess around with it in light loads. You'll get an incomplete burn and A LOT of unburned powder left in the barrel and case.
But, it does well with moderate to hot loads.

+2 prezactly what he said

psalm7 · May 30, 2015, 02:37 PM

I have no expiereance with the powder you mentioned but I use to load the .44 Mag alot and used the same Sierra Data for rifle and handgun .

BigJimP · May 30, 2015, 06:33 PM

I use Hodgdon Titegroup ....for my handgun/rifle loads in .357 mag ( S&W handguns and a Henry rifle ) ...and in .44 mag ( for S&W handguns and a Henry rifle ).....its a good powder / and I load all of the ammo I shoot to handgun specs / and shoot it in any of the handguns or the two rifles.

FrankenMauser · May 30, 2015, 06:48 PM

Quote:

I use Hodgdon Titegroup ....for my handgun/rifle loads in .357 mag ( S&W handguns and a Henry rifle ) ...and in .44 mag ( for S&W handguns and a Henry rifle ).....its a good powder / and I load all of the ammo I shoot to handgun specs / and shoot it in any of the handguns or the two rifles.

I'm not much of a fan of Titegroup, particularly in 'magnum' handgun cartridges.

It's too high strung. Too twitchy. Too energetic. Too fast.
And case fill is terrible.

It's like putting a coked-up, methamphetamine-smoking monkey behind the wheel of an 18-wheeler.
Sure, it might work most of the time. But when things go wrong, they really go wrong....

Bongo Boy · June 2, 2015, 12:01 AM

Quote:

went to the supplier today to grab my 800x and was delighted to find that someone did not want their order of H4227, so now I have that powder. From what I have read it is much more suited to magnum loads. I will start researching a couple of loads and run them over a chrony.

So you're saying you didn't get the 800X but got the 4227 instead? If so, that was probably a good call. I've "read somewhere" that 4227 has often been cited as the choice for cast magnum loads, especially. I'm certainly no super-experienced 44 Mag loader, but so far I have not had the best experience with 800X in that caliber. I just bought 16 lbs of 4227 and have loaded both 44 Mag and 45 Win Mag with it--and it has been a lot easier for me to get accuracy.

I was actually happy to find what I thought was a good place to burn up a lot of 800X (i.e., 44 Mag) as I still have 4 lbs or so of it...but it didn't turn out that way for me. Instead, I'll have to go back to loading it in 10mm and just be patient with it...one corn flake at a time.

If you were looking for good case fill, 4227 will definitely do it--I think most 44 Mag loads will likely be compressed, even if just a wee bit.

In the thread (this forum) 'Loading the 45 Win Mag'

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=563281

I've shown the results I obtained with a small variety of 800X and 4227 loads in that caliber, with my 800X choices proving to be complete garbage. It's too little data to outright blame 800X for the disaster, but it sure didn't look promising.

May 27, 2015, 07:18 AM	#1
mississaugagunnut Member Join Date: January 20, 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 19	Please help a new 44Mag reloader I am an experienced re loader having reloaded 9mm, 45acp, 38spl and 357. I have just picked up a Super Black hawk in 44mag and a Marlin 94 in 44mag. I want to load a round that can be used in both. It will be strictly for plinking. I have purchased a bunch of 240g jacketed flat point bullets and am planning on using 800x (I know, it's all I can get up here). When I search the Hodgdon website for loads it doesn't list 800x as a rifle powder. Should I load according to their pistol loads and use that in my rifle? Thanks for your help.

May 27, 2015, 10:44 PM	#9
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	4227 will treat you well, and work fine in both firearms. Just don't try to mess around with it in light loads. You'll get an incomplete burn and A LOT of unburned powder left in the barrel and case. But, it does well with moderate to hot loads. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

May 28, 2015, 12:03 AM	#10
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,619	I am sure you know you don't have to load 'magnum' loads. In fact my general load for .44Mag is just 10g of Unique under 240g SWC. That's a 1100fps load which will do most everything that needs doing. Or down to 7.5g of Unique for even lighter loads. Other powders will do too, like Red Dot, Green Dot, HS-6, 20/28, Universal, Titegroup, w231, etc.... No need for 'blast', 'noise', and 'heavy recoil' if cutting paper, plinking, and varmiting is your goal.... unless your into beating yourself up for fun . Hah! Use a magnum primer with 4227. You'll get more consistent velocities. No experience with 800x. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

May 27, 2015, 07:27 AM	#2
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	Yes. Those sources that list .44 mag rifle data use the same recipes, and just show different velocities. 800x will likely not give optimum performance in either, but I think you're already aware of that.

May 27, 2015, 07:28 AM	#3
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	Your goal may or may not be obtainable... The groove diameter of the SBH will be .429" (or thereabouts), and the groove diameter on the 1894 will be .431" (or thereabouts)... I only have one jacketed load that works well in both my SBH and 1894, and that is a full on load of H110 under a Hornady 265gr FP that comes in at .430"... I can not get any jacketed bullet under .430" to do better than 5" patterns at 50 yards out of the 1894...Other people seem to have better luck... For cast bullets, my 1894 requires a minimum of .432", and .433" is better... Good luck!

May 27, 2015, 07:47 AM	#4
WVMountaineer Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2015 Posts: 330	I'm going to give you a run down to help you get started and know what to start looking for. As stated, what powder loads you use for the pistol can be used for the rifle. As far as the bullet diameter, I'd simply load a .430 jacketed bullet and go with it. My Ruger RedHawk and 1894 shoot great with 21 grains of 2400, pushing a .430 Gold Tip Hollow point. Yours likely will too. If not, your problem is likely powder choice, not bullet diameter issues. Keep an eye out for H110, W296, AA9, or Alliant 2400. I have never used IMR 4227 but, a lot of people do. These are great powders for the 44 mag and will really bring out the hammer effect the cartridge posses. If you use H110 and W296, load Large Pistol Magnum primers. My personal favorite powder is 2400. Good luck. It is an easy cartridge to load and one that needs to be reloaded to shoot any at all due to price. And, if you want to get into really cheap shooting, slug the bore's and cylinder throats, get you some good lead bullets sized .001 to .002 over the bore diameter, and shoot. For the rifle, if it is a Marlin that has a large bore, Penn bullets makes a great bullet for this. One of the few I've found that will turn out .432, 240 grain bullets. I'm sure there are more but, I like Bob and his bullets. Dardas is another good one for the rifle. I shoot Missouri bullets out of my Redhawk. I hope this helped. God Bless

May 27, 2015, 08:14 AM	#5
riverratt Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2014 Posts: 314	I think 13 gr of 800X gave me decent groups out of my 7 1/2 SBH using a 240 gr XTP bullet and win lpp. I don't have my notes with me now and it's been a wile so I'll have to get back with ya on that. Also if I remember correctly the same load provided acceptable accuracy in a very picky H&R of mine. I do know that no matter what I tried I couldn't get that powder to not lead with cast bullets. Like it's been said before keep your eyes open for h-110, 296,4227 or 2400 all of those powders excel in the .44mag, my favorite is h-110 or 296 (on in the same) followed closely by 4227.

May 27, 2015, 03:30 PM	#6
riverratt Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2014 Posts: 314	I got back to my notes and it was indeed 13 gr of 800X was my best load. It yielded around 1200 fps in the handgun and just north of 1350 from an 18" barrel. It's just on the warm side of the middle so work up your load accordingly.

May 27, 2015, 03:57 PM	#7
sawdustdad Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2014 Location: Virginia Posts: 484	You know for plinking, if you can find a faster powder, you can load it down. 5-6g of 700x or Red Dot makes a pleasant shooting round. When you find 800x you might find 700x...I've been using it a lot for light loads in .38spl and .44spl.

May 27, 2015, 04:23 PM	#8
mississaugagunnut Member Join Date: January 20, 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 19	Thanks for the replies, I went to the supplier today to grab my 800x and was delighted to find that someone did not want their order of H4227, so now I have that powder. From what I have read it is much more suited to magnum loads. I will start researching a couple of loads and run them over a chrony.

May 30, 2015, 02:37 PM	#12
psalm7 Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2014 Location: Middle TN Posts: 543	I have no expiereance with the powder you mentioned but I use to load the .44 Mag alot and used the same Sierra Data for rifle and handgun .

May 30, 2015, 06:33 PM	#13
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I use Hodgdon Titegroup ....for my handgun/rifle loads in .357 mag ( S&W handguns and a Henry rifle ) ...and in .44 mag ( for S&W handguns and a Henry rifle ).....its a good powder / and I load all of the ammo I shoot to handgun specs / and shoot it in any of the handguns or the two rifles.