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Old April 14, 2011, 12:07 AM   #26
aaalaska
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I have put this forward before, But I find it hard to believe with the thousands of bears harvested in North America, if we required every hunter harvest the gall bladder, then put them on the market at very low cost, a few years of that has to drive the cost of black market bladders down, maybe even low enough to make it not worth a poachers time & effort. Because what we're doing now isn't working ,we through our actions have driven the prices to the point where every bear in the world is worth a fortune. Some of the more pressured bears in the world will only exist in zoos in what is left of my life. And it is worth the risk for many , this one bear could pay more than years of work.
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Old April 14, 2011, 06:44 AM   #27
Double Naught Spy
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Look, DNS: The issue, based on reports in the news from wildlife agencies, is that the main reason for this gall-bladder deal with black bears is the sale into the Asian market for use as aphrodisiacs.

That there may be true medicinal uses is beside the point. That's not the cause of the poaching.
Look AE: I don't know where you get your information that the main reason gall-bladders are poached mainly for aphrodisiacs. It would appear they they are marketed for liver, stomach, intestinal, and blood issues.

http://books.google.com/books?id=QRw...page&q&f=false

http://www.bornfreeusa.org/press.php?p=2767&more=1

http://www.laurelneme.com/index.php?...=74&Itemid=160

http://www.clickerado.com/c/chinese_medicine/bear.htm
http://usspost.com/bear-gall-bladder-uses-23251/
http://allaboutnews.net/bear-gallbladder-uses/2228/
http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ddusbearbile.htm#s2

http://www.animallaw.info/articles/arus6animall129.htm
This source notes their use for fevers, burns, swelling, and sprains along with stomach pains and blood in the stool, not to mention eye issues.

Newsweek missed the aphrodisiac connection, but noted it for several other animal products and NOT gall bladders or gall bile.
http://www.newsweek.com/1990/07/22/t...ng-fields.html

http://www.lab.fws.gov/pdfs/Hagey_etal.1993.pdf (see page 1915)

This report on east Asian markets for bear gallbladder says they are NOT for aphrodisiacs.
http://www.traffic.org/species-repor..._mammals10.pdf

I fail to see where "aphrodisiacs" are mentioned in the main reasoning for gall bladder trade, not even by the tree huggers. No doubt if the aphrodisiac angle was significant, it would be played up.

What about those wildlife agencies claiming gallbladders being used for aphrodisiacs, AE?
Quote:
Our Canadian Natural Resources folks have this to say,
In summary, from head aches to hemorrhoides. But, contrary to what you may have heard, not as an aphrodisiac.
http://www.gov.ns.ca/natr/wildlife/l.../beargalls.asp

As noted here, Art, you and others appear to have fallen prey to some western mythology as noted here that is largely the result of poorly researched notions put forth in the writings of culturally ignorant journalists.
http://ancientway.com/blog/?p=80

There may be journalists out there who think that the gall and gallbladder are being used for aphrodisiacs and who make the idea public. There may be some law enforcement folks who think the same thing just like law enforcement folks get gun information wrong as well. There may be hunters who think they are hunting for the aphrodisiac trade because they can't imagine somebody buying such an expensive product to treat a stomach ache when you can buy a 99 cent bottle of Tums to deal with the problem. However, the actual demand for gall and gall products by the people who use them does not seem to be mainly for the purpose of being aphrodisiacs as you stated so emphatically.

Heck, even Wiki doesn't note it for use as an aphrodisiac.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_bear


Maybe this will sum it up nicely...
Quote:
According to the Humane Society of the United States, an average size bear gallbladder can be sold for as much as $3,400 in Asia. Used in traditional medicine, the organ is believed by some to have a variety of medicinal properties and is sometimes sold as a sexual stimulant.
Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/default/art...#ixzz1JUkOicpn

Maybe your Google-fu is better than mine and you have data to support what you have said, but I don't find anything to support that the main reason for gall and gallbladders to be purchased by Asian peoples is for sexual properties.
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Old April 14, 2011, 08:35 AM   #28
Art Eatman
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I'm going by what the wildlife follks have been saying for a good number of years. The deal about aphrodisiacs is what they believe, per their press releases to the newspapers. For all I know, the poachers they catch may well believe the same thing about the market into which they sell the illegally-shot bears.

Seems to me that if there are legitimate uses in medicine, there would be a legitimate and known market, with legal purchases possible. So, control the market here in the U.S. as is done with alligators.

The issue isn't really about whether or not the use CAN be legitimate. It's about poaching and taking only the gall bladder (and maybe the claws) and wasting the rest of the animal. And that's what the wildlife people say has been happening.

A point to ponder: The rise of the petroleum industry ended most non-food whaling. Sperm oil was no longer needed. The same holds for modern medical products as compared to those from animals.
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Old April 14, 2011, 09:32 AM   #29
thallub
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The issue isn't really about whether or not the use CAN be legitimate. It's about poaching and taking only the gall bladder (and maybe the claws) and wasting the rest of the animal.
What Art Eatman said.

Last winter a friend of mine found several black bears in WV that had been shot and left lay, with their stomachs slit open and minus their claws.
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Old April 14, 2011, 10:56 AM   #30
orangello
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To be fair, if you only get information from the Fish & Game/conservation people, you are only consulting a biased source, much as if you called the NYPD to ask about carry permit laws. A source with less money in the game might be more accurate or have information the F&G boys didn't consider. Information from an herbalist or a purveyor of holistic cures based on all-natural products would probably be similarly biased, just in the opposing direction.



Quote:
These folks eat eggs boiled and wrapped in manure then buried for a thousand years.
Somebody needs to sell them a microwave or something. :barf:

Last edited by orangello; April 14, 2011 at 11:26 AM.
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Old April 14, 2011, 02:55 PM   #31
markj
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Somebody needs to sell them a microwave or something.
We seem to buy all they make......

I am a biker, some of my friends did this tour

http://www.adventurebiketours.co.uk/china.htm

told me a lot about the way of life there. I love hearing their tales of travel in other countries but China is very wierd.
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Old April 14, 2011, 11:14 PM   #32
Art Eatman
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"A source with less money in the game might be more accurate or have information the F&G boys didn't consider."

True, but so long as there is poaching and discoveries as posted by thallub, there's a problem. Even a true medical use does not justify the wasting--and that wasting is indeed happening.

It's up to legitimate buyers to lobby lawmakers to institute some sort of controlled market, not the bear hunter who hunts legally.
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