Lube

[sm]

I spoke with George just a bit ago. He asked me to relay this message:

"Advise Romulus that due to my inner ear problem today as evidenced by all its nasty symptoms, I will not be posting this evening. I am however looking forward to meeting him (and others ) in Knob Creek, and will be more than happy to discuss tribiology and lubrication -- between shooting of course "

Romulus , He is really looking forward to meeting people at the shoot...and shooting....

Hint: want to gain points? Diet Mountain Dew...shush...don't tell him I let his secret out.

re1973

[Romulus]

Sorry about his ear problem and associated pain...likewise looking forward to meeting him at the shoot...

[Firepower]

Hey Patrick!
I was really looking forward to seeing you at the KCR MGS. Did I miss you or did something come up? I was a GREAT show and shoot. Met Garry Castle and others from the forums. Great Time.
Best regards,
George

[Romulus]

I'm sorry to have missed you too. Something did come up...Since being "made redundant" in February I've been essentially self-employed. I had far less introit than expected last month, and after talking with my wife we decided to delay our trip to New Jersey till more money is in the fambly treasury. 'Tis the economy.

There will be other opportunities. I'm glad the shoot was a blast. It's good to have you back on the forum.

Best as always,

Pat

[SquirrelNuts]

I just sent George an e-mail for a sample. I currently use TW-25B, which works the best for me, but seems a little thin in that it will spread easily and ends up on my magazines. Not a huge problem, but it leaves a little to be desired. I would like to point out a few observations. These are just simple observations, nothing more, nothing less. I am rather impressed by the fact that FP-10 puslished test results on the website, they have 2nd amendment information on the website, and George visits the forums. This is something I do not see many product manufacturers do. I have read posts from Gale McMillan and WESHOOT2-all very good information from "manufacturers" in a sense. I would like to see this from other manufacturers. Just an observation...

I am also going to try Miltec-1, but I am not as impressed right off the bat with them.

-SquirrelNuts

[Clayton Hufford]

Great post SN!

Quality service, and upfront honesty by showing proof goes a long way with me, too. Getting to actually speak with the guy that invented the product makes a big difference as well .

Militec-1 is a great lubricant ADDITIVE. It should never be used as a stand alone lube on a firearm, or anything else for that matter. Militec-1 will not prevent corrosion, and under certain conditions it will actually cause corrosion, as it is a halogen based product.

MPC uses the same outstanding halogen lubrication technology, but doesn't stop there. They "completed" FP-10 CLP by using other additives to improve the product and allow it to be used not only as a stand alone lubricant, but a complete gun care product - it cleans, lubes, and protects better than anything I've seen.

Regards,
Clay

[featherman]

There are many fine lubricants out there. Having been a mechanic all my life and have had to break many a rusted bolts loose and lube squeeks in many tight places I have found that the best penetrant out there is thru GM or Chrysler it is called Heat control valve lubricant and is a foam that has Colodial Graphite in it and because it is a foam it has some staying power on the rusted area before it runs off, try a spray can and you will use nothing else to get into tight places quickly to free up many a rusted areas....

[Firepower]

Featherman,
With all due respect, yes there are, but some are MUCH better than others. The product and technology (graphite) that you speak of is quite archaic and have been replaced by others that are far superior in performance and priced modestly, as well.
It is well known by professionals in the field, that colloids (solids) in oils do not perform well due to rheological factors and actually cause more problems than not, as most of them (including graphite and molybdenum) can and usually do, induce abrasive wear.

From NASA Technical Memorandum 104525, Tribology Needs For Future Space and Aeronautical Systems, Robt. L. Fusaro, Lewis Research Center, Cleveland OH, Dec. 1991 - Page 9, Solid Lubricant Factors.

“Most solid lubricant films do not function well in a liquid environment, whether it be water or oil. Even the miniscule amount of oil deposited by an inquiring finger can drastically affect tribological properties and reduce endurance life. A small hard particle can imbed itself in a film and severely abrade the counter-face.”

The greatest problems associated with oil dispersions is the alteration of viscosity by the addition of solids which causes a shearing of the fluid film and an increase in traction under Hydrodynamic and Elastohydrodynamic regimes. This can and often does produce a consumption of more energy in the system and works in opposition to energy efficient systems.

Best,
George

[RickRos]

Hello,
I was impressed by all the tests on the FP10 website, and all the good information here on this thread, so I decided to skip the free sample and go straight for a purchase!

Then I saw the $5 shipping and handling charge. I guess I am cheap, but $5 on a $5 purchase bugs me. Instead of a free sample and free shipping for TFL folks, how about free shipping on a purchase?

Regards,
Rick

P.S. Anybody remember the old Xerox commercial, with the crusty old Maine fellow saying, "Is that cheap or is that thriiiifty?" Probably just me.

[Firepower]

Heya RickRos,

Believe me, I can understand your sense of "thrift" as it is one of those bug-a-boos that is unavoidable. Here's why...

Anything you ship via ups, is shipped by weight and the "lightest" amount you can be charged for is 1 pound or 16 ounces. Doesn't matter if you order 1 ounce..you still get hit by the "Brown Truck Gangsters" for 1 pound. So why not ship via US Mail? Granted, it's cheaper, but there is no way to track your order if it doesn't show up. Eating the cost of a 1 or 4 ouncer occasionally is no biggie (seeing that I gave away over 4,000 + shipping & handling since June) but I have to make a profit at some point or I'll be selling obsolete MPC Pens on the corner. If your "2-4 ouncers" or "16/4/Precision Lube Kit Combo" gets lost in the mail, then there's no way to know if it's lost or still in transit. With the UPS boys, I've been able to track many orders, and let folks know where it is and when to expect it.

The way paypal works, is that you have to try to transpose "weights" into a cumulative dollar value, which is kind of screwy, but comes close, and then paypal debits me for each sale in accordance with the amount ( roughly 5% per transaction).

There's also that "handling" (that is not even charged for since the UPS Gang bills us for the $6) involving every order usually by me, Val, or Digger. (That 5 dollars shipping charge you pay, costs me $6. I eat one for you ). That involves hand packaging in leak-proof plastic, flyer, copy of invoice, packaged in tube or box, UPS logging and posting, and labeling. All takes time and time is money, as I have to pay my employees too.

Then there's the ones that UPS loses (they're good at that in some parts of the country) sometimes "TWICE". Of course, I re-ship at no cost, pay the freight again and am now in the hole well over 200%. Will UPS reimburse me for the losses? Sure...but unless the loss is over $20, it hardly pays me to do the paperwork and go through the process, which is more costly than the loss of a small order when all is said and done.

This is why I resorted to sending out all of the free samples via US MAIL, as the loss of a few 1 ouncers is cheaper, and they actually seem to lose much less. But if I sent it all out via US MAIL and they lost your 3-16 ounce bottle order, we'd both be pissed. Also, there is no record of delivery for the US MAIL (1st class postage) and there would likely be a few folks that would be lubing and cleaning their guns with the FP-10 they received while they were calling me to say that it never arrived, and good ol' me would be sending them out another order, "free" which is the long road to going out of business in short.
Starting to get the picture?

I know, it sux, and I don't likle it either because I sell FP-10, not freight charges. If I could get it to you without either of us taking a financial dump, I certainly would. Here's the real kicker...
Let's say you order a 4 ounce FP-10 for $5.37. Add the shipping cost of $5. That's $10.37 you spend total (yep...and 5 of it just to get it there).
Now, paypal clips me on the "gross" (that means "including freight charges") at 5% ($.52) leaving me $9.85. Then the UPS Gang bills me for $6, leaving me $3.85. HOLY CRAP...would you look at this mess !!! I sold a bottle for $5.37...I end up with $3.85 and my expenses are still not cut out. What profit is there here? OOPS...almost forgot...I get back $5 from you to go against the $6 they charged me, now giving me $8.85 gross profit. Sure, my manufacturing costs are lower but if I can't profit to pay my expenses like raw materials, boxes, bottles, caps, labels, employees, utilities, etc., what's the point?

The reality is, that I lose money too on small orders, but make it up on larger orders. The larger orders afford me a larger profit margin by offsetting the cost of materials, whereas before, I had more money in packaging and shipping than I actually did in product, itself.

Well, were learning something in "Business Pitfalls 101":
1.) shipping via UPS sux, but unfortunately, they have a captive marketplace.
2). We both lose when you order small bottles and the like. (of course, 16 ounce and up is much more value for the money (hint))

Well, I know I've thoroughly depressed myself, but I hope I've helped ease the pain and provide a better understanding for you. (where is my Ibuprophen...ugh)
Go for the 16 ouncer...you'll be glad you did, in more ways that one (and I will too )

Best regards,
George