Loading precision ammo - Buy a single stage press or use my Turret?

[DaveInPA]

I am currently using my Lee Classic Turret press with the auto indexing rod removed to load my precision .223 ammo. Would there by any benefit to buying a decent single stage press like a Lee Classic Cast or an RCBS rock chucker for loading the precision stuff rather than using the Turret press in a single stage mode?

Thanks
Dave

[INGunGuy]

I still use my single stage Herters press to do all my precision loading with. Well hell all my reloading now, but I am looking to purchase a dillon 650 or 1050 for my high-volume reloading and stick to my Herters press for accuracy loads.

INGunGuy

[cornbush]

If your turret press will stay consistent you should be fine. I would use the single stage press for any Precision loads, you only have to worry about whats going on with one round at a time.

[Shoney]

Dave
are you talking gas gun or bolt?

What is the max randge you wish to shoot???

[DaveInPA]

If your turret press will stay consistent you should be fine. I would use the single stage press for any Precision loads, you only have to worry about whats going on with one round at a time.

As I stated in my post, I run the turret press in a single stage mode for precision rounds. I AM just worrying about one round at a time.

[Sam06]

Dave the LCT will work fine.

For a single stage to do JUST precision reloading I would look at a either Forester or an Arbor press with LE Wilson type dies.

If you want to spend the money I would get real good dies and use them in the LCT. Either Forester or Redding dies are about as good as you can get. Check out sinclar they have some good stuff for reloading precision 223...........Sam

[DaveInPA]

Dave
are you talking gas gun or bolt?

What is the max randge you wish to shoot???

Two AR's. Out to 600 yards.

[DaveInPA]

Dave the LCT will work fine.

For a single stage to do JUST precision reloading I would look at a either Forester or an Arbor press with LE Wilson type dies.

If you want to spend the money I would get real good dies and use them in the LCT. Either Forester or Redding dies are about as good as you can get. Check out sinclar they have some good stuff for reloading precision 223...........Sam

Right now for the precision stuff I'm using RCBS competition dies and I've been happy thus far.

[Shoney]

How much accuracy you get will depend on:
1. Brand Name or if you have selected parts for a benchrest platform.
2. twist of barrel rifling
3. dies and press
4. case manufacturer and case prep.
5. equipment to measure concentricity.

If you don't have the weapon which is capable of the accuracy you wish then the rest (3.; 4.; and 5.) are moot.

[DaveInPA]

How much accuracy you get will depend on:
1. Brand Name or if you have selected parts for a benchrest platform.
2. twist of barrel rifling
3. dies and press
4. case manufacturer and case prep.
5. equipment to measure concentricity.

If you don't have the weapon which is capable of the accuracy you wish then the rest (3.; 4.; and 5.) are moot.

My rifles are shooting very nice groups out to 400 yards. Haven't gone to 500 or 600 yet. Both have a twist rate of 1:9" and work very well with 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and 69gr Sierra Matchkings. I'm using RCBS competition dies. Cases will be Lapua. I think I have good case prep techniques. I don't turn necks. I don't have the patience to go to that extreme. What the heck is concentricity?

[Sam06]

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/...TCG&type=store

Check this out^

This measures Concentricity.

[Shoney]

Your question on concentricity or as it is more commonly called run out .

As shooters have become more demanding in their search for accuracy, specialized reloading equipment has come into the market. It is well known that bullet run out, or concentricity, is a major factor in producing accurate ammunition.

In years past, the accepted practice for checking concentricity of a handloaded round was to roll the cartridge across a flat surface, such as glass, and note any wobble at the bullet’s tip. This was a fast way of culling obviously defective cartridges, but will fail to isolate those with less obvious run-out problems. Add to this the fact that run out problems can be caused by not just an improperly seated bullet, but by the case itself, and the limitations of this approach become unacceptable.

Today, handloaders have several options that are capable of measuring concentricity to .001" or less. Most operate on some variation of the same principle. A loaded cartridge is mounted in the unit, normally supported by a “V” block arrangement at the case head and bullet ogive. The cartridge is rotated slowly, while a dial indicator bears on the area of the cartridge being checked. Any concentricity problems are not only immediately visible, but measurable on the dial indicator.

One of the first commercial models, which is still readily available and quite popular, was the Forster/Bonanza Co-Ax Indicator. Recent entries in the concentricity gauge market include models by Sinclair International, NECO, and RCBS. Some models, such as the NECO Gauge and RCBS Case Master, are capable of not only measuring bullet run out, but case neck variation, wall thickness and concentricity as well. Given the accuracy obtainable, particularly from many of today’s bolt action rifles, using a concentricity gauge to get the last bit of accuracy out of handloaded ammunition makes sense to me.

[Sam06]

Very Good explanation Shoney.

Here is the one I have Dave.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/...175&type=store

If you are shooting the AR in something like a service rifle match you will not need one. For benchrest matches and such they are a must. You can get good accurate handloads without one and in an AR I doubt you would see the difference at 600 yds. I am not insulting you or your equipment.

If I were in your shoes I would concentrate on making good Consistent ammo checked with a chronograph before you spend a bunch on specialty tools for benchrest shooters. I am not knocking anyone with that statement. This has been a good thread.....................Sam

[DaveInPA]

Very Good explanation Shoney.

Here is the one I have Dave.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/...175&type=store

If you are shooting the AR in something like a service rifle match you will not need one. For benchrest matches and such they are a must. You can get good accurate handloads without one and in an AR I doubt you would see the difference at 600 yds. I am not insulting you or your equipment.

If I were in your shoes I would concentrate on making good Consistent ammo checked with a chronograph before you spend a bunch on specialty tools for benchrest shooters. I am not knocking anyone with that statement. This has been a good thread.....................Sam

No offense taken, Sam. I know the AR platform isn't as accurate as a good bolt gun, but I'm shooting small enough groups with my AR's to make me happy!

[Sam06]

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

Dave this is a good read. Its about getting accuracy out of the 223. It has a lot of info in the AR Platform and on Lapua Brass. I recommend it. I can Guarantee you will learn a lot. These guys take accuracy seriously. I got to run its been a fun morning talking reloading with all of you........Sam

[DEDON45]

I like to use my Hdy Single Stage press for "precision" rounds... although when I compare how consistent my .308 rounds are that are reloaded on that press with the ones reloaded on my LnL AP (Progressive), there's very little difference in accuracy and velocities... and that's with me trickling in the powder charges for the precision rounds.

[snuffy]

Dave here's my RCBS gauge doing what it's capable of;



Here I'm on the ogive of a 60 V-max, centered straight up on zero.



Here it is at max run-out of .002, these were loaded on my lee classic turret.


This is measuring a FL sized case, that's ready for powder and bullet, on zero.



You can see here that the case neck is at .001 run-out max.



I should take a better pic of this, but that's how you can measure case neck thickness AND is it the same thickness all-the-way-around.



That shows it better.



I'm warned that I can only have 6 pics on one post, I'll put the pic referenced to here on the next post.

Here is the little hook on the wire, for checking incipient case head separation, looking for the little grove on the inside of the case web.

This tool will give you a lot of insight into the tiny variables that are always present in rifle rounds. And tell you if a new die of a change of procedures did what you wanted it to do.

[snuffy]

Here's the pic of the case web tool.

[DEDON45]

For 2009 Hornady is now selling a tool that not only measure concentricity, but you can use it to correct the problem as well; also works on factory ammo... looks like a neat tool.

[BigJakeJ1s]

That RCBS tool can be used to inspect the case web by feel as shown (feeling for a circumferential ridge or ditch inside the case wall near the case head).

It can also measure case wall thickness (or at least variations in thickness) by swinging the hooked arm around under the dial indicator, and setting it to read zero with the indicator sitting directly on the hook tip. Just look for consistently rising thickness measurements as you get nearer to the case head. By measuring the case thickness profile in 3 or 4 strips around the case, you can also determine how uniform the brass thickness is around the case, but this is not usually a problem in quality brass. It does take practice to get consistent readings "free hand" like this. Just keep the case wall normal (perpendicular) to the dial indicator tip as much as possible.

Andy