220 Swift v. 22-250 - Page 2

old roper · October 18, 2011, 06:31 PM

Most avid varmit shooters I know own more than one rifle and some use the 22-250/220 Swift for the longer shots or if the conditions get bad.

OP didn't mention how he was going to use either caliber other than was going to be a varmit rifle. I have some short yardage varmit rifles and some longer yardage calibers so I'll take 2/3 rifles.

If I was looking at using either caliber as my only varmit rifle not doing any high volume shooting I'd get the Swift.

black mamba · October 18, 2011, 07:50 PM

Many responders said if you handload get the Swift. But, the 22-250 usually comes with a faster twist, making it more versatile with heavier bullets, so I would say the Remington is even better for the handloader.

Toney · October 18, 2011, 07:56 PM

I really thought hard about the 220, went with the 22-250 sometimes wal-mart even has ammo for it.

TNT · October 18, 2011, 08:21 PM

220 swift IMO

**44 AMP** · October 18, 2011, 09:00 PM

FOR many years the .220 Swift had the advantage over the .22-250, because the Swift was a factory loaded round, while the .22-250 was a wildcat.

The Swift was king of velocity, BUT it came at the cost of a fairly short barrel life. Modern steels and powders have changed this quite a bit, but either round is hard on barrel throats when loaded to the max.

With Remington making the .22-250 a factory round, the advantages of the Swift mostly went away. The .22-250 uses the same standard head size as dozens of other rounds (.473) so the shellholder for the .30-06 or the .45 ACP works for reloading it. The Swift needs a shell holder for the Swift (or the obsolete 6mm Lee Navy, which was the parent case for the Swift)

If you are desperate, .22-250 brass can be made from the .250 Savage, or even, with the right forming dies, the .30-06 (although that's a lot of work), and since its a factory round for over 40 years now, .22-250 brass is common.

Swift and .22-250 barrels often have the same twist, 1-12 or 1-14, or they did before the fast twist barrels found in ARs today have proven the value of extra heavy (70gr+) bullets in .22 cal.

I've had a .22-250 since the early 1970s, and as far as I'm concerned, even though you might get a handful more fps with the Swift, the .22-250 is the king of centerfire .22s.

jimbob86 · October 18, 2011, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Welcome to the world of the 500 yard chuck gun.

Specialization, is, as they say, for insects....... or woodchucks.

Me, I'll keep killin' grass rats of any stripe with my deer rifle (.270 WIN).

phil mcwilliam · October 18, 2011, 09:19 PM

I asked myself the same question 30 years ago & concluded the Swift was fractionally better than the 22-250. I settled on a 22-250 because Sako didn't offer the Forester in .220 Swift. After 30 years of hunting with the 22-250 I'm now on my second barrel. I would have to say there has been no shot that I've taken in 30 years of hunting with the 22-250 that would have had a different outcome if I was using a .220 Swift.
These two rounds are that similar in performance that the person behind the trigger is the main influence in how well they work.
If you don't reload, 22-250 ammunition is more widely available in remote locations, than .220 swift.

.300 Weatherby Mag · October 18, 2011, 10:33 PM

The 22-250 Remington has buried almost every cartridge that produces similar velocities... The .220 Swift has managed to hold on (albeit by its finger nails), due to a number of loyal hardcore varminters (aka old farts

) who continue to sing the praises of this old but hot round... Some of my best shots have come with a .22-250, I have two of them and do not own a .223 Rem (so I'm a non-conformist

) Its a great round if you handload (which has been mentioned by others in this thread)

davery25 · October 18, 2011, 11:00 PM

the facts:

1. Lets face it - hyper velocity cartridges are kinda stupid really - they're highly inefficient and burn through barrels quicker than a 223 with only a slight increase in ballistic performance

2. That aside, the 22-250 operates very well at a great range of powder charge loadings where the 220 swift operates best when fully loaded.

3. Cost of firing the swift is quite a bit more than the 22-250, which is quite a bit more than a 223.

4. 220 swift is 'rarer' and the 22-250 won't get you into the 'swift club'

Despite the above, if you don't care about barrel life or cost, and already have a 223 as your staple varminter - then get the swift for its prestige factor.

I personally have a custom mauser in 22-250 but i don't hunt and hence consider it to be a silly cartridge.

All in all i reckon you'd do much better with a 243 or 243 AI though.

davery25 · October 19, 2011, 01:03 AM

im astounded that everyone loves the 22-250 so much. maybe its the engineer in me but the inefficiency of the cartridge and using such a large amount of powder for a bullet that can't carry much of its energy bothers me.

its fun to shoot though i guess.

220 swift is out of the question for me because of the above.

.300 Weatherby Mag · October 19, 2011, 01:25 AM

Quote:

maybe its the engineer in me but the inefficiency of the cartridge

Not are fun things in life are "efficient"

mrawesome22 · October 19, 2011, 01:32 AM

Dave, the love for fast, inefficient, cartridges is pretty simple.

Flat trajectory.

Those of us that do hunt know that hunting requires possible shots at "estimated" ranges. The advantage of a flatter shooting round is that it gives you more cushion for errors in range estimation.

Every cartridge is inefficient. Just the nature of the beast until we start shooting laser beams at coyotes and groundhogs.

Fortunately, smokeless powder is cheap and abundant.

Seven1 · October 19, 2011, 10:22 AM

220 Swift if you're a handloader or plan on it soon.

Unfortunately most factory 220 ammo is loaded to about the same velocity as 22-250 factory loads, which is disappointing because the 220 definatley out performs the 22-250.

If rifle and ammo availabilty are a concern go with the 22-250, rifles and ammo are everywhere.

If you want pure performance and a bit of rarity go with the Swift. Save some exotic wildcats, you'll have the epitome of 22 cal centerfire performance.

Buy yourself a nice Ruger M77 VT 220 Swift, a couple pounds of IMR 4064 and some quality 55g bullets of your choice. Load 'em up and shoot 1/2 inch 5 shot groups all day at 3800+ fps

geetarman · October 19, 2011, 11:14 AM

One of the best marketing moves ever was the decision to make the 22-250 a factory round as opposed to a wildcat.

It has been around a long time and with nominal loads of 38 gr. H380 and a 52 gr. SMK, it will reach out with the best of them.

It is a favorite of mine and I have been shooting the 22-250 for over 40 years.

I always wanted to try a 220 Swift but never have had the opportunity and at this point, it just does not make much of a difference.

The 22-250 really works for me. I am sure others feel as strongly about the 220 Swift.

Geetarman

raceroch · October 19, 2011, 01:58 PM

220 outperforms and has the history. 22250 if you plan not to reload and .223 if you are economic and not trying to push limits. tikka t3 hunter in 223 is the way to go imo... unless you want the set trigger

spclPatrolGroup · October 19, 2011, 02:30 PM

You didnt really say what kind of varmit you are hunting, or why you are hunting them. If you are hunting Pdogs, it doesnt really matter, or if you are hunting pests just to get rid of them it probably doesnt really matter. However if you are hunting for fur, 22-250's will ruin too much of the pelt, and the fur buyers won't give you top dollar, you would be better off with the swift, or 223.

Scorch · October 19, 2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

220 outperforms and has the history

As far as history goes, one of the original names for what we now call the 22-250 was " Wotkyn's Original .22 Swift", supposedly because that was the original design before Winchester opted for a semi-rimmed version of the 6mm Lee Navy (the parent case has a head/rim approximately the same size as the 35 Remington, so they had to add a small rim to make it fit a standard bolt face). Winchester marketed the heck out of the fact that their load was doing 4,000 fps (with a 36 gr bullet), which at the time (1930s) was almost unheard of (except for the 22 Newton). As far as the 220 Swift outperforming the 22-250, in my experience, and it seems like the experience of many other responders, it does not consistently outperform it. But it's all good. As I said earlier, pick one or the other, they're about the same.

redmonster13 · October 20, 2011, 02:03 AM

I owned a nice Kimber in 22-250 and rebarreled my 700 to 220 swift.

I still own the swift. The kimber went down the road.

The swift was just more fun to shoot, and someone has to keep the classics alive

geetarman · October 20, 2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

and someone has to keep the classics alive

True!! That is as good a reason as any. If you like it, buy it and shoot it.

Geetarman

dgludwig · November 18, 2011, 05:59 PM

Ballistically, the two cartridges are essentially equivalents. Imo, the biggest advantage the 22-250 has over the Swift is price and availability (for non-reloaders. This "advantage" is negated for those of us who reload). I will say that the most accurate factory rifle that I have ever shot (and I've poured a couple of tons of lead down-range over the past fifty years or so) using factory ammunition is my Ruger No. One Varmint model, chambered in .220 Swift. I'm not saying that my experience is necessarily representative of all Swift rifles; only that it is true in my individual circumstance.

I would also argue that barrel life for the two rounds should be approximately the same.

dagger dog · November 19, 2011, 08:44 PM

And de bate goes on....... and de bate goes on !

A 220 Swift ( Ruger KM77VTMKII out of current production) is a goal of mine.

I must have had the same adolescent dreams after reading the velocity spec's on the old KING of the late 1930's Heap, in the 1961 issue of Stoeger's SHOOTERS BIBLE, any discussion on centerfire rifles always wound up stating those blistering numbers and the burnt barrels that fell by the wayside.

We all know that the Swifts barrel burnout problem was solved with modern powders, and in another way, with the new in 1960's Remington 22-250 round.

The 22-250 can just about duplicate any speed spec's as the Swift with the same bullet, with less powder, easier to find cheaper brass. Plus I think the Swift loadings have been reduced over the years.

IF you have to shoot a 22 caliber,IF you have to have a laser flat 4000 FPS, IF your shooting 400 plus yards , IF you don't mind waiting 15 minutes every 4-5 shots for the barrel to cool either will fill your bill.

IF not a 223 Remington AI will get the lighter bullets 40 grs or so damn close in numbers and with less powder and wear and tear., but you may have to walk up 25 yards closer.

But the 220 Swift will always be my KING OF THE HILL!

IDAHO83501 · November 19, 2011, 08:48 PM

22-250,,,,gets my vote,,,,,,,

nate45 · November 19, 2011, 09:13 PM

I like both of them and have owned both. Only have a .22-250 right now though.

Although I do have a post 64 Model 70 in .225 Winchester in the collection. Take that .220 Swift 'rebels', I are the most rebellious.

trg42wraglefragle · November 19, 2011, 09:37 PM

If they're ballistically equivalent and the 22-250 is cheaper to reload for, easier to get components for and comes in a lot more factory guns and you can get factory ammo a lot cheaper.
Then there's no reason to get the 220 unless you like to be obtuse, or the odd one out.

I'm a practical person so I'd go for the 22-250, or even the 204 Ruger if its only for small varmints.

The barrel life of the 220 swift doesn't seem to be as good as the 22-250, if so why not choose the 22-243, its just a practical as the 220 and will be like a lazer!

mrawesome22 · November 19, 2011, 09:54 PM

Buddy of mine is that way. He refuses to own a Varminter because "everybody has one." Yet he owns a 223Rem lol.

October 18, 2011, 08:21 PM	#29
TNT Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: Back in glorious Nebraska Posts: 606	220 swift IMO __________________ "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man and brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

October 18, 2011, 09:00 PM	#30
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	FOR many years the .220 Swift had the advantage over the .22-250, because the Swift was a factory loaded round, while the .22-250 was a wildcat. The Swift was king of velocity, BUT it came at the cost of a fairly short barrel life. Modern steels and powders have changed this quite a bit, but either round is hard on barrel throats when loaded to the max. With Remington making the .22-250 a factory round, the advantages of the Swift mostly went away. The .22-250 uses the same standard head size as dozens of other rounds (.473) so the shellholder for the .30-06 or the .45 ACP works for reloading it. The Swift needs a shell holder for the Swift (or the obsolete 6mm Lee Navy, which was the parent case for the Swift) If you are desperate, .22-250 brass can be made from the .250 Savage, or even, with the right forming dies, the .30-06 (although that's a lot of work), and since its a factory round for over 40 years now, .22-250 brass is common. Swift and .22-250 barrels often have the same twist, 1-12 or 1-14, or they did before the fast twist barrels found in ARs today have proven the value of extra heavy (70gr+) bullets in .22 cal. I've had a .22-250 since the early 1970s, and as far as I'm concerned, even though you might get a handful more fps with the Swift, the .22-250 is the king of centerfire .22s. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 18, 2011, 05:59 PM	#45
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,486	Ballistically, the two cartridges are essentially equivalents. Imo, the biggest advantage the 22-250 has over the Swift is price and availability (for non-reloaders. This "advantage" is negated for those of us who reload). I will say that the most accurate factory rifle that I have ever shot (and I've poured a couple of tons of lead down-range over the past fifty years or so) using factory ammunition is my Ruger No. One Varmint model, chambered in .220 Swift. I'm not saying that my experience is necessarily representative of all Swift rifles; only that it is true in my individual circumstance. I would also argue that barrel life for the two rounds should be approximately the same. __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

November 19, 2011, 08:48 PM	#47
IDAHO83501 Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Lewiston, Idaho Posts: 337	22-250,,,,gets my vote,,,,,,, __________________ The next time someone asks you " What do you know ? " Respond with a smile and say " A frogs ass is water-tight."

November 19, 2011, 09:13 PM	#48
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	I like both of them and have owned both. Only have a .22-250 right now though. Although I do have a post 64 Model 70 in .225 Winchester in the collection. Take that .220 Swift 'rebels', I are the most rebellious. __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

October 18, 2011, 06:31 PM	#26
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	Most avid varmit shooters I know own more than one rifle and some use the 22-250/220 Swift for the longer shots or if the conditions get bad. OP didn't mention how he was going to use either caliber other than was going to be a varmit rifle. I have some short yardage varmit rifles and some longer yardage calibers so I'll take 2/3 rifles. If I was looking at using either caliber as my only varmit rifle not doing any high volume shooting I'd get the Swift.

October 18, 2011, 07:50 PM	#27
black mamba Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2011 Location: SW Florida Posts: 890	Many responders said if you handload get the Swift. But, the 22-250 usually comes with a faster twist, making it more versatile with heavier bullets, so I would say the Remington is even better for the handloader.

October 18, 2011, 07:56 PM	#28
Toney Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2005 Location: Stillwater Oklahoma Posts: 790	I really thought hard about the 220, went with the 22-250 sometimes wal-mart even has ammo for it.

October 18, 2011, 09:19 PM	#32
phil mcwilliam Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2007 Posts: 573	I asked myself the same question 30 years ago & concluded the Swift was fractionally better than the 22-250. I settled on a 22-250 because Sako didn't offer the Forester in .220 Swift. After 30 years of hunting with the 22-250 I'm now on my second barrel. I would have to say there has been no shot that I've taken in 30 years of hunting with the 22-250 that would have had a different outcome if I was using a .220 Swift. These two rounds are that similar in performance that the person behind the trigger is the main influence in how well they work. If you don't reload, 22-250 ammunition is more widely available in remote locations, than .220 swift.

October 18, 2011, 10:33 PM	#33
.300 Weatherby Mag Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Posts: 1,777	The 22-250 Remington has buried almost every cartridge that produces similar velocities... The .220 Swift has managed to hold on (albeit by its finger nails), due to a number of loyal hardcore varminters (aka old farts ) who continue to sing the praises of this old but hot round... Some of my best shots have come with a .22-250, I have two of them and do not own a .223 Rem (so I'm a non-conformist ) Its a great round if you handload (which has been mentioned by others in this thread)

October 18, 2011, 11:00 PM	#34
davery25 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 318	the facts: 1. Lets face it - hyper velocity cartridges are kinda stupid really - they're highly inefficient and burn through barrels quicker than a 223 with only a slight increase in ballistic performance 2. That aside, the 22-250 operates very well at a great range of powder charge loadings where the 220 swift operates best when fully loaded. 3. Cost of firing the swift is quite a bit more than the 22-250, which is quite a bit more than a 223. 4. 220 swift is 'rarer' and the 22-250 won't get you into the 'swift club' Despite the above, if you don't care about barrel life or cost, and already have a 223 as your staple varminter - then get the swift for its prestige factor. I personally have a custom mauser in 22-250 but i don't hunt and hence consider it to be a silly cartridge. All in all i reckon you'd do much better with a 243 or 243 AI though.

October 19, 2011, 01:03 AM	#35
davery25 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 318	im astounded that everyone loves the 22-250 so much. maybe its the engineer in me but the inefficiency of the cartridge and using such a large amount of powder for a bullet that can't carry much of its energy bothers me. its fun to shoot though i guess. 220 swift is out of the question for me because of the above.

October 19, 2011, 01:32 AM	#37
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Dave, the love for fast, inefficient, cartridges is pretty simple. Flat trajectory. Those of us that do hunt know that hunting requires possible shots at "estimated" ranges. The advantage of a flatter shooting round is that it gives you more cushion for errors in range estimation. Every cartridge is inefficient. Just the nature of the beast until we start shooting laser beams at coyotes and groundhogs. Fortunately, smokeless powder is cheap and abundant.

October 19, 2011, 10:22 AM	#38
Seven1 Member Join Date: May 25, 2009 Posts: 32	220 Swift if you're a handloader or plan on it soon. Unfortunately most factory 220 ammo is loaded to about the same velocity as 22-250 factory loads, which is disappointing because the 220 definatley out performs the 22-250. If rifle and ammo availabilty are a concern go with the 22-250, rifles and ammo are everywhere. If you want pure performance and a bit of rarity go with the Swift. Save some exotic wildcats, you'll have the epitome of 22 cal centerfire performance. Buy yourself a nice Ruger M77 VT 220 Swift, a couple pounds of IMR 4064 and some quality 55g bullets of your choice. Load 'em up and shoot 1/2 inch 5 shot groups all day at 3800+ fps

October 19, 2011, 11:14 AM	#39
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	One of the best marketing moves ever was the decision to make the 22-250 a factory round as opposed to a wildcat. It has been around a long time and with nominal loads of 38 gr. H380 and a 52 gr. SMK, it will reach out with the best of them. It is a favorite of mine and I have been shooting the 22-250 for over 40 years. I always wanted to try a 220 Swift but never have had the opportunity and at this point, it just does not make much of a difference. The 22-250 really works for me. I am sure others feel as strongly about the 220 Swift. Geetarman

October 19, 2011, 01:58 PM	#40
raceroch Member Join Date: October 5, 2011 Location: RI Posts: 51	220 outperforms and has the history. 22250 if you plan not to reload and .223 if you are economic and not trying to push limits. tikka t3 hunter in 223 is the way to go imo... unless you want the set trigger

October 19, 2011, 02:30 PM	#41
spclPatrolGroup Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2010 Location: North Dakota Posts: 349	You didnt really say what kind of varmit you are hunting, or why you are hunting them. If you are hunting Pdogs, it doesnt really matter, or if you are hunting pests just to get rid of them it probably doesnt really matter. However if you are hunting for fur, 22-250's will ruin too much of the pelt, and the fur buyers won't give you top dollar, you would be better off with the swift, or 223.

October 20, 2011, 02:03 AM	#43
redmonster13 Junior Member Join Date: October 19, 2011 Posts: 2	I owned a nice Kimber in 22-250 and rebarreled my 700 to 220 swift. I still own the swift. The kimber went down the road. The swift was just more fun to shoot, and someone has to keep the classics alive

November 19, 2011, 08:44 PM	#46
dagger dog Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Posts: 65	And de bate goes on....... and de bate goes on ! A 220 Swift ( Ruger KM77VTMKII out of current production) is a goal of mine. I must have had the same adolescent dreams after reading the velocity spec's on the old KING of the late 1930's Heap, in the 1961 issue of Stoeger's SHOOTERS BIBLE, any discussion on centerfire rifles always wound up stating those blistering numbers and the burnt barrels that fell by the wayside. We all know that the Swifts barrel burnout problem was solved with modern powders, and in another way, with the new in 1960's Remington 22-250 round. The 22-250 can just about duplicate any speed spec's as the Swift with the same bullet, with less powder, easier to find cheaper brass. Plus I think the Swift loadings have been reduced over the years. IF you have to shoot a 22 caliber,IF you have to have a laser flat 4000 FPS, IF your shooting 400 plus yards , IF you don't mind waiting 15 minutes every 4-5 shots for the barrel to cool either will fill your bill. IF not a 223 Remington AI will get the lighter bullets 40 grs or so damn close in numbers and with less powder and wear and tear., but you may have to walk up 25 yards closer. But the 220 Swift will always be my KING OF THE HILL!

November 19, 2011, 09:37 PM	#49
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 856	If they're ballistically equivalent and the 22-250 is cheaper to reload for, easier to get components for and comes in a lot more factory guns and you can get factory ammo a lot cheaper. Then there's no reason to get the 220 unless you like to be obtuse, or the odd one out. I'm a practical person so I'd go for the 22-250, or even the 204 Ruger if its only for small varmints. The barrel life of the 220 swift doesn't seem to be as good as the 22-250, if so why not choose the 22-243, its just a practical as the 220 and will be like a lazer!

November 19, 2011, 09:54 PM	#50
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Buddy of mine is that way. He refuses to own a Varminter because "everybody has one." Yet he owns a 223Rem lol.